Proposal: CSS reading-flow about html HOT 13 OPEN

@emilio @annevk @rachelandrew feedback appreciated, thanks!

from html.

When I look at the last comment in the linked issue I don't get the impression the CSS WG decided on something here? Is this proposal the result of what some in the CSS WG were asking for?

from html.

We're intending to discuss the linked issue at the f2f tomorrow morning. This proposal is in support of that. The WG has previously resolved to work on reading-order-items and the existing draft spec is here.

from html.

I see. Agreeing to work on something is very different from "The CSS WG has proposed ..." Clarifying that would be good.

The other thing that comes to mind here is #7054. Is that still being developed?

from html.

The other thing that comes to mind here is #7054. Is that still being developed?

It's moved into https://open-ui.org/components/focusgroup.explainer/ @travisleithead

from html.

I see. Agreeing to work on something is very different from "The CSS WG has proposed ..." Clarifying that would be good.

Updated the above description to "CSSWG agreed to [...]", thanks for the suggestion.

from html.

We're intending to discuss the linked issue at the f2f tomorrow morning. This proposal is in support of that. The WG has previously resolved to work on reading-order-items and the existing draft spec is here.

Thanks for linking to the spec. One thing that comes to mind is that the eventual WHATWG spec PR would be simplified if the CSS spec could have a defined term for the "reading order". That would avoid needing to re-define it as @dizhang168 has done in this section. The CSS spec has all of the info already, but it isn't listed in a way that could be referenced from the HTML spec, I don't think.

from html.

I'm very happy to edit things into the spec that we think are usefully defined there, I'm not completely clear on what would make it easier to reference from the HTML spec (that's likely my lack of knowledge though) very happy to work through this to get things into the best place.

from html.

To be clear, I don't think @bkardell's response addressed my question. (But perhaps that was clear and people are still thinking about it?)

from html.

OpenUI has been regularly discussing focus groups and it is an active proposal being prototyped. I think they are a separate issue from this, however. Focusgroup is more about roving tab index patterns while as I understand it reading order is about adjusting the tab/AT cursor order based on layout. Both can co-exist and are distinct enough from each other that there isn't a lot of overlap.

from html.

reading-flow (reading-order-items) is relevant to the focusgroup idea imo. It will fall into the same trap that tabbing does today if you use flex and change ordering? Unless focusgroup just does its ordering based on tabbing's (with different focusability requirements). I think that there needs to be some thought put into both as to how they interact for sure.

It is still being actively developed.

from html.

Adding this proposal to the upcoming meeting so we can discuss with implementers:

• Support for defining reading-flow concepts within HTML standard
• Support for adding Reading Flow container as a Focus scope owner and modify the existing sequential navigation search algorithm, as described in the proposal.

from html.

Summary from 2024/08/01 meeting:
Adding Reading Flow container as a focus scope owner make sense. The proposal should be updated to handle the cases of display: contents and position: absolute. Afterward, we can work toward opening a spec PR for the proposal.

from html.