USB-C? about ironos HOT 131 CLOSED

I have modified one ;) https://hilo90mhz.com/ts-100-usb-c-pd-mod-20v-via-internal-adapter/
![IMG_20190515_215657](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/6935928/57839116-
Your website isnt working, would love some more info on this.

You're right.. I have to rebuild the server that website was hosted on.. Still have all the content but haven't found the time to fix it yet.. Here are the pictures which comprised the bulk of the content on that page.

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I have modified one ;) https://hilo90mhz.com/ts-100-usb-c-pd-mod-20v-via-internal-adapter/

from ironos.

Hi,
You are talking about two different things here: QC2.0 chargers and USB-C.
QC2.0 uses the data pins to signal higher voltages by looking at what value is present on the data pins.
USB-C requires the device to identify itself and actually ask for the higher voltages.
Working with QC2.0 chargers can be done entirely without the microcontroller using any of the available intermediate boards or by setting up a voltage regulator and resistors inline to the unit (since you would need to make a custom power cable anyway).

USB-C is completely out of the question for the STM32f1 inside to implement as the pins are just not routed in a way to make it easy to do. It would be far easier to use an external module to perform the negotiation to ask the power adapter to supply the max voltage. This could be done in a similar fashion to this article.

from ironos.

USB-C QC is not that intelligent. It simply reacts to data lines voltage:

See Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 protocol specification and support.

So 20 volts is actually very simple to get, except there are very few Class B (20v capable) devices on the market, most of them are 12v max. If you feed both data lines +3.3v, the power source will switch to the maximal voltage it's capable of.

Sadly USB Type-C is much larger than microusb and probably won't fit inside.

For starters you can get power from the QC-capable device using Quick Charge Adapter.

It actually works:

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@alexnif007
I wouldn't recommend anyone designing for QC 2/3 as its being strongly pushed out in favour of USB-PD which is available on USB-C. As well as USB-PD supporting higher voltages and higher power.

However all of these require some form of negotiation, either resistors(QC) or active messages(USB-PD).
For all of these you are going to need to make up a special cable of some kind to :

1. Connect the power output through to the barrel jack (you cannot supply heater from USB)
2. Interface to the standard using resistors / communications
3. Adapt to plug in the case of USB-PD

It would be possible to put some of this inside the iron, sure, but the vast majority needs to be added externally which is why most people just purchase adapters and call it done.

I would happily support someone making a USB-C to barrel jack USB-PD cable which would be awesome, but is not really something that can be done in the iron itself.

The 20W limit on QC is a joke for a soldering iron that is going to be used for anything large.
20W is workable for low powered use (small assembly), but as soon as you try and solder a larger connection you really want the higher power available in USB-PD.

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It works! The module has options to choose from and apparently is able to manipulate both QC2.0, QC3.0, USB PD and various other protocols. I succeeded in running a UDOO X86 Ultra-microcomputer off a QuickCharge-capable (unsure about Power Delivery though, but apparently it's a feature) power bank with both USB-A and USB-C outputs with the 12V/3A profile on a 2.1mm/5.5mm DC barrel jack. I have yet to test it with the TS-100 and its 2.5mm/5.5mm, but since this is also an analog device, I expect a great possibility of instant success.

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I think @perillamint is on the right track.
Using an external converter board that also houses the USB-C connector would make the most sense given the already compact design of the ts100 iron. Would also allow you to power other devices with the same converter board.

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@perillamint I agree that QC is not worth touching, and the growing market of the usb pd is worth working towards using as it works well for portable battery supplies as well as wall adapters that are available.

What would be nice is to create an add on that decodes the usb-c pd and communicates to the iron the available power so it can scale to the available power.

I agree @alexnif007 about this being a discussion about portable batteries, but it's important to also look at the wider use case of people who use their ts100's at a desk and like to use mains power.

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@qoobaa Hey that looks awesome! How do you choose the voltage? I can't seem to understand the instructions.

Like how do I set it to 20v for the TS100?

I'm also thinking of getting the version with the USB-A port and the button so I can cycle thru the voltages and just use a USB to DC cable.

By the way, does the ZY12PDS support both PD and QC3.0?

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It's 20V by default, (XX means no connections). If I understand correctly, you just need to solder these pads according to the description below them (I haven't tried), X means no connection, O means the pads are soldered.

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There is a simple way to make USB type-c to DC jack cable:

1. Take something like this. It already has PD trap for 20v in the USB connector
2. Cut MagSafe and solder 5.5*2.5mm DC Power Male Plug Jack
   
3. ...
4. Profit

Would be great if someone finds same as (1) cable without MagSafe, or type-c connector bundled with ZY12PDS

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Wow, I expected it to be a lot less simple.

So if I understand this Quick Charge Adapter correctly, the only thing it is doing is giving different voltages over the data lines. That's something the STM32 should be able to do as well.

I can see that the USB-C connector is too big, but we can make USB-C to DC5525 + MicroUSB adapter cables. Or MicroUSB to DC5525 + MicroUSB for QC3.0 devices.

Here's my actual feature request:
Add a mode where it sends max. voltage (3.3) over D+ and D- on the MicroUSB connector.

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Someone did it using Hakko handle and custom controller board.

http://hackaday.com/2017/02/24/60-watt-usb-soldering-iron-does-it-with-type-c/

I think this setup also works for TS100 iron.

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@Ralim a small improvement (board with QC USB) and USB-C connectors :-D

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I'm currently a little bit too busy to design a dedicated pcb at this point in time. But ill come back to this when im less busy to see where the market is at for this kind of option :)

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I was looking for the simplest way to power TS-100 or charge my laptop out of a USB PD enabled charger, and I've just stumbled upon this guy: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-PD-trap-TYPE-C-Fast-Flip-Flop-pollinpg-device-detector-trigger/32830872838.html. I've just got one and it seems to work flawlessly.

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@qoobaa yeah cool but one I was referring to (and already posted a link above) costs just $3 (well, $4 with shipping), not $13. Just for clarity, longer link without a caption: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1PCS-QC2-0-qc3-0-Tester-Automatically-Detects-Phone-Quick-Charge-Voltage-Meter-Simulator-Trigger-9V/32771660912.html

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@joric I bought this one too, but it's not USB-C PD.

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@qoobaa ah ok it's quickcharge. Different standards.

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It'd be nice if there was a simple USB-C PD (20V) -> 5.5mm dongle adapter.
There are some batteries now that support 30W output, which is probably enough for many jobs?

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It will be nice to put this port in TS100 - USB-C Port, and use Power Bank like this (12V/1.5A) - Tronsmart-Presto USB-C
P.S. MA5887? Datasheet

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I would love to see USB C implementation directly on the next TS 100 - it is the elegant solution. Data + power all in one and many new laptops support this connector.

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The next generation (TS200) will use Quick Charge 2.0 over USB-C. Sadly it looks to be limited in power to a low power (~20W). Specs haven't been confirmed just yet though. Just looking at marketing material.

I'm personally going to stick to the TS100 for now. But will update here if I hear any more information.

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Why use QC2 (which has a maximum output of 20W), when USB-PD could provide all the way up to a 100W. Guess they just thought there are more QC2 compatible chargers around?

I couldn't find any info on the T200, mind providing a link? I'd be interested to see what they've come up with.

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Im guessing so? Havent really heard the reasoning, but 20W is just too little power for most things if you ask me. PD would be much nicer.

I dont have any links online im afraid :(

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@qoobaa Does that Ali board automatically try to pull the max voltage from USB-PD devices? I'm thinking about getting one and a DC5525 to make my own USB C adapter.
Does it also pass data through the 4 through-holes on the board as well?

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@Adrian-at-CrimsonAuzre it does not. It requires to push the button several times after connecting, sometimes it doesn't allow to choose the highest profile (randomly). I gave it up and ordered PD Buddy from Tindie - it works perfectly, but it's quite pricey compared to the Ali board. No idea about passing the data lines (I'd bet it does not pass anything).

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Might end up getting one of those or making my own.
If I can cram the circuitry into a small enough board I'd probably replace the 5.5mm plug with a daughter board.

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@Ralim IMHO, whatever the name of the technology is (PD or Quick Charge 2.0-3.0), everyone here wish to get possibility to make some smart battery pack, supporting higher voltage and currencies to output at least 12V with adding minimal additional external hardware for TS100. Not adding USB-Type C (it is useless, and will not give a required result). Here a man did something same with a few lines of code for ATTiny85: http://blog.rnix.de/12v-from-a-usb-powerbank/ The question is: Is it possible to add a few lines in the firmware of TS100, so, that it will be capable of giving corresponding signals through it's microUSB, for instance, selecting some menuitem or just with a press of a key, like it is described in the link, given before? Or not?

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@alexnif007
You need the resistors in the datalines to be able to pull them to 3.3V for the QC identification (which I'm pretty sure the TS100 lacks), so you would at the least need to make a special cable for it.

Doing the USB-PD thing with a 5.5mm jack in the end would be much better, as it can actually provide enough power to do stuff. QC is limited to 20W absolute max, because the micro-usb connector can't handle much more.

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@Ralim While the months pass - still on the market I see only QC chargers, so while here discussion continues already half a year - it started 17 Jul 2017, this half year already people could use it "on the road" with the pocket battery. The TS100 itself is - not serious - it's handle getting extremely hot in a few minutes, and it has no secure stop for a hand not to slide to the heating element, so it cannot be used for something large whatsoever, but only few pinches "in the field", for which is needed portability, also of a battery, which is being in use, in this case mostly present QC on the market, if take something more powerful - TS100 losing it's main advantage - PORTABILITY, because of giantic battery, which someone has to carry to use it. For "anything large" I prefer to use butane Dremel or portasol - offering the same portability with more power on the field. Anyway, I am going to do QC bit bang with Arduino which power the TS100 using barrel, for connection of Arduino to the battery use USB. Just before didn't want another external element adding clumsines to the TS100 construction.

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IMO, for this kind of application, USB-PD is more suitable then QC2 or 3(reverse engineered recently). QC 2 or 3 only provide power up to 18 Watt, which doesn't enough for this kind of application. In contrast, some popular USB-PD adapters like Apple USB-PD power brick product line starts from 29W max power and Nintendo Switch power brick provides up to 39 W, which will definitely do its job.

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@perillamint If talking about usage of 110V or 220V power adapter - there's no need to make it this complicated way, you can choose any even more powerful notebook charger, even 3.75A or 4A, just select needed barrel size from wide selection of chargers for some Dell, ASUS, Acer notebooks, it will be even cheaper. Here we are talking about usage of some POCKET BATTERY!

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I use a tiny 19V @ 2.1A (40W) laptop charger, it has the perfect balance of size and power for me, and the lower power means the cable is thin and extremely flexible. Just slightly ruined by the gigantic EU plug (I've since swapped the travel adapter plug to a regular 0.5m cable), but there's not much I can do about that :)
If I really need to take it to the field, a 4S lipo works fine.

@Ralim

What would be nice is to create an add on that decodes the usb-c pd and communicates to the iron the available power so it can scale to the available power.

AFAIK implementing proper USB-PD is not easy to DIY, but there are plenty of dirt cheap manager chips one could use, like the FUSB302 (the chip is ~$0.35 in quantity). Here's a project/breakout board that can basically do what the second post QC adapter, but for USB-PD.
I guess why no-one has really done anything like this is the danger of having a regular USB port that is configured to output 20V@5A to anything you plug in it, which is why I'd much rather just skip that part and just make a device with a USB3-A plug in one end, the USB-PD chip in the middle with a switch to select between a few voltages, and a 5.5mm barrel jack in the other.

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I would only do usb-pd using an interface ic such as the one you mentioned. Your proposed is basically what I was thinking.

I think either an inline cable that provides a barrel output or a new iron entirely are the two ways we are most likely to see this.

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👍 to USB C PD built into the iron... (a new model) imagine just connecting your USB C PD adapter straight from laptop to the iron.. Ideal solution.

My phone and laptop are now USB C PD - why not my soldering iron :)

My use case is portable soldering or while traveling - for desktop use I have a nice Hakko iron that works fine already (and better handles)

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I Bought this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-PD-trap-TYPE-C-Fast-Flip-Flop-pollinpg-device-detector-trigger/32830872838.html and I can confirm that:

1. It works with a USB-C PD 40W ZMI (Xiaomi) 20000mah powerbank just as many of you wanted.

2. It actually switches automatically to the highest Voltage the USB-C PD can delivery. So if you plug it then it takes 20V right the way. And then, you can push the button to switch to another voltage.

I bet for the combo and It is just the best investment i couldn't be done in years.

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@moracabanas I'm guessing that when you press the button, it goes to Level 1>2>3>...?
I was going to make a board for this (PD Buddy is a bit bulky), but this will work perfectly.

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I also bought that "USB PD trap". My version definitely didn't switch to the highest voltage automatically, sometimes prevented to choose the highest voltage profile manually too (possibly a bug) - so I had to disconnect it and connect it again to do so. I replaced it with PD Buddy board eventually - it works flawlessly now.

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@Ralim yeah there is not so much information about TS200. Are there any pics? I only got a few from the forum here https://mysku.ru/blog/china-stores/60248.html they say it's from some chinese chat. Any other source?

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@Ralim I bought this cable once: https://www.tabletcovers.dk/products/macbook-usb-c-til-dc-5-5-mm-forlaenger-opladerkabel-2-m-sort
Is it possible to use this cable to pull 12V or more from a PSU or powerbank with QuickCharge or Power Delivery?

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@KarmusDK Not really, as there are no active electronics in the cable to tell the PSU how much power it wants, and the iron has no data connections to the barrel jack (all it can do is turn it on or off through a mosfet). You connect it to a regular powerbank, and the best it should do according to the USB specs is 5V 100mA (though you most likely can get as much current as it can offer)

But if you get a device to output enough power out of a USB-C port without active communication from the iron (like using one of the QC or USB-PD spoofing boards discussed in this thread), then sure.

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@JohnEdwa Thanks for replying so fast. I looked a bit into different trigger boards, although they all seem to have the same connector standards: USB-A and USB-A or USB-A and none (holes for wire soldering). However, I stumbled across this advanced measuring tool. It seems to have trigger functions as well, and even a USB-C OUT port. Does anyone have experience with this module? It would be expensive to buy, just to find out that it cannot be applied to my instance.

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@KarmusDK I don't think that module will do what you want I'm afraid.

I have the @ReclaimerLabs breakout board on my desk to play with. It combined with a microcontroller would do what you want, but stand alone it wouldnt really do much else. @ReclaimerLabs does make a nice board that has a microcontroller combined with it that could be programmed to automatically request the max available and that would do what you wanted. But still a pricy option :/

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So I bought https://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-PD-trap-TYPE-C-Fast-Flip-Flop-pollinpg-device-detector-trigger/32830872838.html and it will not select the highest profile. It will also jump down to 5V after a few minutes of use, turning off the iron.

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The TS-100 soldering iron works with a USB-C to DC 2.5mm/5.5mm plug and the Power-Z KM-001 module's on either QC (QuickCharge) or USB PD (Power Delivery) test functionality. It heats up quite fast on 20V.

It is absolutely crucial to have a portable soldering iron with an attached battery bank if you're a technician on the go, but be sure to buy one with an immense capacity - alternatively you can go for a gas-powered iron.

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Great work, thanks for confirming this!

Where did you find the USB to DC adapter?

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Great work, thanks for confirming this!

Where did you find the USB to DC adapter?

https://www.tabletcovers.dk/products/macbook-usb-c-til-dc-5-5-mm-forlaenger-opladerkabel-2-m-sort

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Not quite USB-C, but for the record if you are into FPV drones and have spare (4S?) batteries with XT60 connectors, you could try this cheap adapter.

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TS80 is selling now on banggood and aliexpress for $72.99.

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@xavkno yep. Doesn't power on with 65W laptop PD adapter (CDQ07ZM) https://youtu.be/xc-yIq0m54o

Regarding TS100 and Type-C it's probably possible to fit a $0.19 16pin Type-C connector like this one used in TS80, but the footprint is totally incompatible, probably would need a flex cable or a riser board.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/YuXi-USB-3-1-Type-C-16pin-female-connector-For-Mobile-Phone-Charging-port-Charging-Socket/32840308311.html

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The PD buddy and one of these from wherever you choose to get it is the best option if you want USB C. It's all but guaranteed to work, and it's easy to solder together and setup.

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You chop the battery end off the connector and solder it to the USB C board. Then configure the board to request the max power from the USB C source

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Take a look at ZY12PDS on Aliexpress. It's much better than the previous board. I used it to make an adapter for Thinkpad, and it works flawlessly. It costs $12, allows to select voltage by soldering pads on the PCB (no buttons). It's also very tiny - can be easily wrapped in using a heat shrink tube.

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So for your cable you didn't solder any of the pads and your using 20v? This might be the cheapest way to have USB PD on the TS100. Based on the product description ZY12PDS might support QC3.0 as well but I can't be certain because the translation is pretty bad. The other PCB versions that have a button also have an LED indicator that can change color to indicate which voltage is set.

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Yes - it's 20V without soldering any pads. I use it with an Anker power adapter with PD support only (no QC), works perfectly.

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That is awesome! I bought the model from YZXStudio with button - but if wired directly to the TS100 it will enter into USB programming mode when powering up on 5V - so it never goes to soldering mode even after 20V... You could avoid this if you use an adapter cable, but I wanted to permanently solder the USB-C-PD board to the TS100 so it will be always connected. But this model that does 20V always hopefully avoids this problem? Has anyone tested yet?

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I've got two spare modules atm, I'll test it when I find some time.

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Maybe I'll wait for your test before I order. Just to see if there are issues like jumping to a lower voltage

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On second thought there is really no way it could not supply 5v when first connected as that is always the default of the cable.. so probably have to modify the firmware of the TS100 to behave like I want. Or put a mosfet to only supply power once 20v is reached. Both modules should work you just have to power up the USB-C-PD module before it is connected to the soldering iron.

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@clowrey starting it on 5V should not enter the iron into USB mode unless you are using miniware firmware. My firmware does not do this. (Which would be one easy solution around this)

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Thanks @Ralim I will try change the firmware.. Mine is still on the default firmware it came with, not sure what that is.

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I suddenly realised, can I actually get the full 20V with the ZY12PDS that has a USB Type A port? I ready somewhere that PD is only for USB C to USB C. Is that accurate or it doesn't matter? What if I connect the ZY12PDS using USB Type A to DC 5.5 2.5 will the TS100 still get the 20v?

with

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Yes I believe it will...not safe of course if you mistakenly plug anything else into that USB port when it's on the 20V mode but it should work. Be aware some of those USB to 5.5 will not fit the soldering iron which needs an extra large center pin connector. Also allot of them use like 24-28awg "copper" to save a few cents.. I had some that were really bad so try to get one with 18AWG or larger.

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Thanks! What would be the issues when using 24-28 awg instead of a beefier 18 awg? I'm just starting out and not yet too familiar with electronics.

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Top, I just made myself a usb-c jack cable, as I use it as well in DC5525 and USB-C.

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@clowrey where are the technical details? It's not instagram. What's Type-C-20V adapter did you use? Is it custom made? Is it from Aliexpress?

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I only use USB-C: my laptop + phone and now my soldering iron all use the same cable/adapter never thought that would happen but the day has come!

The PCB is called YZPDS by YZYStudio - same manufacturer as most of the others above, but new smaller model that defaults to 20V output.

Okay I have updated my page with real links to the products:
https://hilo90mhz.com/ts-100-usb-c-pd-mod-20v-via-internal-adapter/

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It works! ... I expect a great possibility of instant success.

I'd slightly disagree. Portability is key for me too ... but a few things limit my enthusiasm. Walking round with a massive warhead being the first .. my aim is a single s4 pac per visit I carry 2 spares in a thermal box ... just in case. Massive powerbanks make big bangs!!! More importantly, it's all about redundancy. If you put all your eggs in 1 basket you end up losing when you need it most.
I carry a ts80 a couple of batteries and a gas iron for bigger stuff. The gas is the lighter than any of the other components - so easy to include. Its also about thermal mass - the TS irons are both pretty punchy but you can't expect them to defy physics - they do have limits that "just a few more volts" won't compensate. As someone said - the engines won't take it. However red the tip goes, sometimes that teeny weeny end can't deliver, you just need a bigger fire.

I was reading reviews on the latest batch of phones and a big chunk of them are qc4 so there will be a shedload of support now that "ordinary people" will be wanting to fill their drawers -

RIP qc3 can't say I'll miss you.

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@clowrey does it also support QC chargers? Just wondering. PD is pretty complicated maybe this controller supports QC protocol too? Just in case, as on mobile phones.

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I really hope QC4 dies as well and we can have one standard to rule them all that being USB C PD - it makes sense.

The ZMI USB C PD Powerbank QB820 does 20V at 2A 20,000mAh at 3.6V or 72Wh and weights 405g - it can charge my laptop, cell phone, or soldering iron and I already carry it in my backpack everywhere.

If you need redundancy on a power source bring along your USB C PD AC wall power supply which is also in my backpack - I really like the Cable Matters 72W 4-Port USB C Power supply with 1 USB C PD and 3x USB A power supply - own 6 of them one in every location I might connect a laptop or cell phone.

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@clowrey does it also support QC chargers? Just wondering. PD is pretty complicated maybe this controller supports QC protocol too? Just in case, as on mobile phones.

I doubt it supports QC protocol... Buy USB C PD power supplies ;)

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If you need redundancy on a power source bring along your USB C PD AC wall power supply which is also in my backpack.

If I had access to mains I wouldn't be messing round with batteries or powerbanks at all!!!! Always look for the least tec answer - it's usually the most reliable. Unfortunately my needs changed and the easiest fix was the TS80 ... I've just about made my peace with that decision but one of these days we'll pay for the over engineered, indulgent, tech for tech's sake situation it's created.

By the way @c .... re Qualcomm's QC4

This latest generation brings a number of improvements, but perhaps the most remarkable change is that Quick Charge 4 is now compatible with the USB Type-C and USB Power Delivery (USB-PD) specifications set by the USB-IF standards body.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/10846/qualcomm-announces-quick-charge-4

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Hi guys.
Really interesting stuff in here!

One thing I can't really understand with the ZY12PDS, my charger has PD has for all voltages (5v/9v/12v/15v/20v), does this mean I can't use utilize 5v by bridging this chip (i.e always getting 12v)?

I was hoping to make myself a couple of cables with dedicated ZY12PDS chips for all these voltages so I can charge a phone, power my ts100 or a raspberry pi for instance.
Thanks!

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@Roet-Ivar As any voltages other than 5v are negotiated, seems logical that whatever the negotiation protocols/voltages the device uses/delivers, the default power on will be always be @5v Unless you include a dedicated boost to 5v<. It's always going to end in tears for low voltages if you overvolt a plug which as a set voltage as is the case with USB's current default of 5v. Where 5v is critical and If you have doubts about supply stability, I'd incorporate one of the many tiny 1-2a buck converters which usually have a wide input range in a dedicated 5v lead. Cost pennies - could save embarrassment.

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Got ZYPDS today from ebay here https://www.ebay.com/itm/233102637939 ($3.67, free shipping).
Stable 20V from laptop PD charger, but only 5V from QC charger. DISAPPONTED! But it's okay.
TS100 definitely wins over TS80 now, because I'd sure mostly carry PD charger (for the laptop), not QC.

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@aotd1
Thank you,
do all cable cords have a PD trap? Could I simply buy one from amazon and have a cable with PD trap, if not, how do I recognize one?

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@bl4k1st no, I choose this one with MagSafe connector because it has 2 hacks internally:

1. PD chip telling the charger that something wants raw 20V on one side
2. The chip that telling the MacBook is connected to original old MagSafe charger on another side

I think type-c connector bundled with ZY12PDS is a very specific thing and it's a problem to find it (I simply can't find correct keywords for search =)

Other guys get raw ZY12PDS and add the plug jack to it: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3384396

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@aotd1 probably because it's no ZY12PDS it's just ZYPDS.

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Finally, I found it
Not tested, but looks like it is what we need

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Just to report: I am now using a (Aukey) Power Bank, putting out 18W on USB-A port, a Power-Z QuickCharge injector and a USB- round connector cable. It allows the TS100 to solder at about 14W portable. Using only QC2, because it ramps up stepwise quickly, QC3 is ramping continuously and takes way longer to ramp to 12V

The Power-Z injector was expensive though :(

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I have modified one ;) https://hilo90mhz.com/ts-100-usb-c-pd-mod-20v-via-internal-adapter/

Your website isnt working, would love some more info on this.

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I love the infos on this thread, however I lost the overview :D
I want to connect my TS80 to any USB-C PD enabled charger (laptop etc.).
So what kind of adapter do I need to get the 20 V USB-C to 20 9/12 V QC3?

So interesting stuff, if I use a C-C cable on my Mac and the TS80 it doesn't work, but a A-C cable with a small A-C Adapter works fine but very slow (guess it's limited to 15 W USB 3.0).

Can anybody clear things up and help me get the most out of the TS80?

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#majuss
Depends just how you'd define "most"; most years, most good joints or most faults.
Ok I went for ralim's firmware and I bought a TS80 package which included a PSU.
The PSU is a stock qc3 unit that delivers 9v in "overdrive" and 5v most certainly isn't enough on it's own (my first reason for coming here was stock FW gave an error on 5v - Ralim's did eventually get to the melting lead point, but slooowly.
As far as I'm aware 5-9v is the design spec for the 80 - with every qc3 adapter I've tried, it negotiates 9v no more (despite qc3 being capable of more with the right devices).
It does everything I want within that range including big (enough for me) groundplanes and 4mm thick bus and power leads. I have different kit for handling bigger.
Any more than that, I honestly can't see that given the quite modest thermal mass of the tips that despite the quite astonishing capabilities of the iron which seems to keep up (or beat) the ts100 in most things - you're not going to get quality results just by overheating the tip - soldering is a chemical reaction that only works well with a heat transfer and cooling curve that's quite clearly defined.
You're likely to only get a pile of scrap by forcing the 80 to swallow 20v.

Your iron - your decision - but if you bought the kit to actually solder things - and those things are girders - you bought the wrong one, if not - mine works well within the limits. I don't see the point in killing the iron I'm pretty certain that it's been said that the tips are all specced at >450c and that the chips are for 12v max (although mine has never asked that from any power source I own.

I get the over clocking thing with PCs, but that's an accepted "sport" where the machines aren't really expected to work correctly in real life. Same with the HiFi guys and petrol heads. Their "best" is something else. But solder gets brittle if overheated and won't fuse if under cooked - so there isn't much point unless you just want 0-450c in as short a time as possible (and it seems neither temp control nor time management is accurate enough in the hardware to verify either).

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Yep sorry I ment 9/12 V QC 3.0 :)

So is there some kind of QC 3.0 Adapter with male C and female C?

Ralim mentioned something in august 2018: "Though, a really nice product if your up for it, that is on my to-build list but buried too far deep would be to make a small USB-c inline adapater that converts between USB-PD and Quick Charge 3.0."
This is exactly what I'am looking for and I wonder if something is out there already. If not I may produce it in the next months.

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USB4 combines pd and qc compatibility. Once the phone bunnys start using it the adaptors and other gadgets will be everywhere.
Problem at the moment is qc3 doesn't seem to support qc3 even from the same manufacturer let alone including PD. QC3 is good to 3A while PD is good to 12v bjt vs mosfet - I can't see an adapter being a practical option while they can't come up with a consistent qc format

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So after like 2 hours of plugging the TS80 into various devices I have lying around I can confirm something pretty interesting. These cables by the company Rampow have a QC3 Adapter built in, which means with the help of this cable I can plug the TS80 into virtually ANY USB-power source (every Powerbank works, MacBook Pro 2017, MacBook Pro 2010 with USB 2.0, MacBook Pro USB-C charger...) even my Mi 8 worked as a power source and it always drew 9 V and warmed up at a normal speed. A similiar C-C cable should also work fine.

I don't know if anybody said something about these cables already, so here are my infos.

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Yours has the advantage of being made for the job AND being red.
There are a couple of other options - not really straight alternatives
AOKoda Lipo to USB Power Converter QC3.0 Adapter Quick Charger (Phone or Tablet)
or
ISDT BattGo BG-8S Smart Battery Checker Balancer Receiver Signal Tester Quick Charge Function
both need 7-27v so are better suited to lipo 4s or above which gives you a quite robust power source although you might get away with some USB2 units.

The other other alternative is a <2A buck boost converter mine is a 3a / 3.2-28v -> 2-26v and while it will work from some USB2 powerbanks - on some cheaper banks either the 3.8-5v boost or the protection tends to pulse the supply on and off making it unusable - the answer there is to tap directly onto the cells(s) and insert one of the many stand alone 18650 protection boards which don't seem to interfere.

The downside with that is the double conversion from 3.8v ->5v ->qc3 ->9v rapidly further diminishes the already short battery life - even a mediocre 4s lipo will give you a good hours soldering. but in an emergency ...

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These cables by the company Rampow have a QC3 Adapter built in, which means with the help of this cable I can plug the TS80 into virtually ANY USB-power source (every Powerbank works, MacBook Pro 2017, MacBook Pro 2010 with USB 2.0, MacBook Pro USB-C charger...) even my Mi 8 worked as a power source and it always drew 9 V and warmed up at a normal speed.

@majuss That Rampow cable is USB 3.1-gen1 3A Type-C. Max power QC3.0 permits is 18W ([email protected], other voltages can use different amperage, but max is 18W over the wire). Whatever is used as power source needs to support QC, else you'll get typically [email protected] afaik(Maybe 3A or as low as 500/900mA depending on source). Nothing about the USB-C cable itself afaik really matters about supporting QC3.0, that's up to the power source and device, the Rampow cable page didn't seem to mention anything that indicated they had some chipset internally to force pull a certain current(which'd be undesirable in most cases).

What I did notice is their marketing images in the gallery show the wire breakdown and specify the gauge sizes of the wires as 24/32AWG, 32 would be for data which usually is 28AWG, no clue if that causes lower transfer performance(not that it matters here since it's all about power). 24AWG should be able to handle 2A fine apparently.

A similiar C-C cable should also work fine.

That is a basic USB-C cable, only handles USB 2.0 data and 3 amps(good for up to 60W with USB-PD iirc, need 5A cable for more). The product page oddly states 28W is the max the cable supports, while quoting some QC 3.0 voltages/amp combinations that equate to 18W(not a typo exactly as it also went into their marketing images).

Just thought I'd clarify this stuff for anyone following along. A lot of discussion on voltage here or amps separately, but they are both important for the amount of watts to be drawn. As are the cables, note some power banks also cap the output regardless of capability with voltage or amp output, my xiaomi mi powerbank for example will only permit 15W, so achieving 18W via QC is not possible there.

For those looking into cables that boost 5V, you'll take an efficiency loss(usually around 20%) from the final output current, and keep in mind that the amperage will decline as you increase the voltage in addition to that. Some of these products also restrict the amperage because of heat dissipation (another reason that AWG of the wires is important if you want to push more amps through without risk of melting the cable insulation and causing a fire, afaik 18-20AWG will handle 5A ok).

The Power-Z injector was expensive though

@bl4k1st , it also appears to be out of stock? Did you see it available somewhere?

Finally, I found it. Not tested, but looks like it is what we need.

@aotd1 Did you get to try it? Thanks for the link, that product sounds/looks very useful! I'll share the link again without the url shortener:

USB-C PD 2.0/3.0 to DC 5525/5521 barrel adapter cable - 15V/20V - $5USD. I'm a bit surprised that it doesn't have any notable change in size, it would be good to hear how well it works.

I had come across these which cost more and handle the USB-PD at fixed voltage with a ZY12PDS, which someone mentioned earlier I think. So if someone wanted a product with that already setup with the cabling, it seems that'd be it, but the product @aotd1 mentioned earlier seems better if it works(I've not tried either personally but would be happy to know if someone has).

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So the Iron shows 8.4 V when I plug the cable into a MacBook Pro 2010 with a USB2 port and warm up speed is fine. How do you explain this behavior? Other A-C cables don't work on any non QC3 power sources, but this cable works with EVERY USB power source. What other explenation is there if not a built in adapter.

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A frightening number of people seems not to appreciate that these things aren't made by harry potter - they follow electrical principles which are either cast in stone - or limited by design,
If you buy a gadget made for charging a device battery. Within the laws of physics there is plenty of wriggle room. Especially when they are made for a non tech audience who think it's all magic anyway. They are easily identified, they usually start any plea for advice by assuring everyone they are computer phobic, but like Beyoncé they own the latest iPhone (lolz!).

QC3 devices handle the business of fulfilling appropriate voltages as negotiated by the DEVICE in question. Just because a cable conforms to QCanything doesn't necessarily mean that it fulfils EVERY aspect of the standard and indiscriminately pumps out 12v@3A.... a microscopically small controller built into a pocket sized device physically can't dissipate 1KW of energy - so by design it will deliver (say) 9v but limited to (say again) 500ma - never the 12v @ 3A the spec makes provision for. Copper is quite expensive so on a £2 lead you are either going to get aluminium conductors or very thin poor quality copper. that may have the dimensions of 24awg but will have the resistance of stone.

My wife just bought a supermarket USB lead having run out of fleabay supplies. It's surprisingly good quality with a resistance 1/4 that of the fleabay and now performance means my wife's phone charges in 3 hours rather than 8.

If you possess basic electrical knowledge and can find a tech spec for the device you are interested in - it's very easy to explain why ... in this case - a charging lead that probably charges a device in twice the time the "official" kit does it also performs better than a sub-standard USB2 lead. Remember because it speaks qc3 it's still a win as a charger and delivers a little more oomph. However - when you ask the cable to deliver an army of pixies able to melt enough lead to cover a football pitch - it's not going to happen.

Anything that will fit inside a USB plug simply won't be able to handle the number of pixies you'd need to do serious work Fine for a 9v trickle charge that by the time it's struggled down a high resistance conductor arrives panting at only 8.4v but it will keep your phone online when plugged in to a single cell usb2 powerbank containing a 650mAh cell.
Physics however will stop that setup delivering your request for 12v@3A

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So Jenny have you tried putting your wonderful gizmo to actual work?
Looking at the proportions I'd guess about 11/2"x2" (40x50mm)
( plug it into any USB PD power supply with a high enough power capability. It negotiates with the power supply and turns on its output, giving your project up to 3 A at 5, 9, or 15 V, and up to 5 A at 20 V). I'm persuaded it maybe COULD deliver ... if only it could talk to the Iron .. the TS80 is QC3 only - so a non starter - have you found the magic word to get yours talking to your ts100?
There's lots of talk about VOLTS - but no mention in the blurb of them big strong AMP pixies. What sort of power output do you actually use in a sustained session? Normally I'd consider getting one to see - but at $30 per unit and postage to UK of $66 my laughter turned to hysteria before I could apply for a loan.

I got my ts80 as a hopeful tongue in cheek gadget. I really wanted it to work - but QC3 just seems determined to make things as awkward as possible That's why I ended up here - USB2 sort of works with ralim's firmware - it's a long walk - but it gets there eventually.

The stock PSU and cable does a passable job and at home within it's class it's a capable gadget that I can use for it's intended purpose. Take it out on a field trip - and it becomes a total agoraphobic mess!
I'm interested to know if any of the people proposing PD have actually got past the theory stage and are melting lead?

I've tried different batteries and powerbanks, I've been playing round with buck boost converters and just when you think we're off - QC3 slaps you round the head. At the mo my best efforts is a s4 lipo feeding an AOKoda qc3 controller. A little "lumpy" but it delivers a decent power to weight tradeoff and actually melts lead in a respectable way - if I get desperate I can plug a buck boost into my USB 5 PB to give 14v ish to again feed the AOKoda qc3 controller. It's a time limited option - but does work in a flap.

My last option is to use my MI pro qc3 powerbank which does the job ... but not for long
My old lead acid powered all my needs all day.

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So the Iron shows 8.4 V when I plug the cable into a MacBook Pro 2010 with a USB2 port and warm up speed is fine. How do you explain this behavior?

@majuss No clue, the TS80 is QC3 capable, but the power source should also be QC3 capable, otherwise it's kind of dangerous to pull voltage higher than supported afaik. A-C cables themselves are actually against USB specifications. A USB 2 Type-A port should only support 5V and up to 1.5A.

If the cable is going to behave in such a dangerous way, it should be stated so on the product page. Have you actually measured the voltage/amps, or are you just going by what the iron claims on the display?

Physics however will stop that setup delivering your request for 12v@3A

@whitehoose your ramblings are a bit hard to follow sorry. My response earlier should have laid out some clear information about the concerns you talk about. If you have the appropriate cable along with compatible power source and device on each end, then 12V/3A can be negotiated no problem.

I'm not sure if 24AWG handles constant 3A well, but afaik 22AWG should? Actual wattage delivered from one end to the other will depend on voltage drop. The longer the cable, the more resistance(AWG wire size applies here too) which equates to a loss of voltage, decreasing the wattage on arrival to the device(like the 8.4V mentioned here).

If a voltage booster is used(rather than fast charge protocol), then as mentioned amperage will take a loss here(not only in the adjustment to the higher voltage, but in the loss of efficiency in doing so, via heat dissipation as you mention). So again, final wattage at the device takes a dive in amps as well as voltage, providing even less power.

Regarding the PD BuddySink, you seem to have misunderstood the product. The USB-C port is for input power from a power source, the board itself is negotiating the fixed power requirement you have with all the joys USB-PD 3.0 offers regarding that.

The output you can then connect the wires to a connector of your choice to route the power to a device, such as DC5525 for TS100 or I guess another USB-C cable/connector for TS80. Jenny doesn't use it with a TS80, and I myself am not sure if the TS80 would respond well to that, it might not be a suitable product for the TS80.

Just supply a QC compatible power source or some adapter(if one exists for the power source).

Regarding amps, that's really up to how you approach it. You need a power source that can output the amount of amps at the voltage you want, as well as a cable that can support it. The device itself will likely take whatever voltage(if accepting a variable voltage), and convert to the voltage the circuit wants to work with(possible efficiency loss), amps available will adjust accordingly with that, but the circuit will only draw as many amps as it requires(I don't know how the TS80/TS100 work in this regard as I don't use the products, I assume software/interface allows you to increase that demand or it draws a constant amperage at whatever voltage it receives?). Usually the amount of amps you're sending over the wire won't be all that high, 3-5A at highest for USB-C, voltage is a bigger player here(speed effectively), with the combination of the two giving a wattage output that is more meaningful as whole.

The TS100 at least takes 12-24VDC, the table I saw shows 12V/17W(~1.42A) with 40s to heat 30c to 300c, while 24V/65W(~2.7A) manages it in 11s.

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polythene
Thanks for clearing that up, I hadn't realised the ts80 would adjust the voltages automatically to give the full 5 amp.
Thanks for making the situation clear.

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@polarathene

I'am just trusting the iron on the voltage measurement. What's the easiest way to measure it?

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