Native bookmarks synchronization about bookmarks HOT 32 CLOSED

From a Users sight it's very hard to have no sync for browser information like bookmarks (history, open tabs, logins, etc) any more.

It would be so pretty helpful if at least bookmark sync between all my firefox installations work. But when I think of having all my folder structures replaced with tags and a flat hierarchy, and further having most of my bookmarks multiplicated, it would not be an option for me.

Please please please add folder structure and additional metadata information like keywords! I guess you will win so many new users for your app just because of the ability to have seamless browser sync!

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The Floccus webextension now works as intended to provide native bookmark syncronization: https://github.com/marcelklehr/floccus ;)

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FYI, Floccus supports custom folders (even the browser root folder) and folder hierarchies now. :)

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I'm also looking at a Firefox Add-On called GBookmarks (Google Bookmarks for Firefox) 0.7 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/gbookmarks-google-bookmarks-fo/eula/110356?src=search
Your Bookmarks are sync'ed among multiple computers with Google and viewable at Google's site https://www.google.com/bookmarks (both shown):

This is what I'd like to do with Firefox, (and Chrome) using OwnCloud as backend bookmark keeper infrastructure. I'm used to how Chrome sync's with Google Chrome's proprietary backend which goes way beyond Bookmarks and includes such additional things as; Saved Passwords, auto-fill content, History, browser settings, installed apps/extensions (Add-On's). I'd be more comfortable with that information (or just bookmarks) on my own server, not Google's. I have to admit, using this feature is more handy than I ever would have imagined when switching between 2 OS's, 3 desktop's, and a notebook computer.

Is there a standards based API for this, like WebDAV or [tongue in cheek] BookmarkDAV? It would be really handy if bookmark information could also be available in Thunderbird Email (same Add-On) to add bookmark information to mail without having to open a web browser to retrieve it. And just provide a sync link (Like Calendar and Contacts) https://cloud.myDomain.com/remote.php/webdav/bookmarks/craig/defaultbookmarks

Ok, now I did it... how do I re-open an issue? {Never mind, I think I got it} Just like Linux, this system will happily let you shoot yourself in the foot. 👍

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Ok, I found a partial solution for OwnCloud Bookmark sync. Xmarks for Firefox http://download.xmarks.com/download

I'll come back and embellish this description later. Basically Xmarks will let Firefox use an external server like OwnCloud to store a "bookmarks" file. Before you get all excited, it does this through the WebDAV interface to store the Bookmark file in the OwnCloud File area. The URL to use in the Xmarks Advanced settings tab is:

https://YourServerURL/remote.php/webdav/bookmarks.txt

Replace https://YourServerURL with your OwnCLoud URL.

This will create a file called "bookmarks.txt" in your Files area. This is a text file, but I wouldn't call it human readable. Do this on all your Firefox installations and your Firefox browsers will have the ability to exchange or synchronize all their bookmarks using OwnCloud as a file server. You can call "bookmarks.txt" anything you like. To OwnCloud it's just a file.

This solution doesn't sync with OwnCloud Bookmarks, but syncing all my Firefox installations using OwnCloud file services is a big step in the right direction.

Xmarks for Chrome and Xmarks for MSIE don't have the "use your own server" feature. Both will only work with Xmarks servers.

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Thanks, this is actually exactly what I am looking for.
When I have ownCloud installed it should easily sync my bookmarks across all devices and browsers. The current ownCloud extension for Chrome is just not cutting it, so I started to write my own. I started by looking at the existing extension and saw that it just scrapes the "export.php" which does not make much sense. Why not provide all data as a clean, machine-readable string? Another thing that the Bookmark application lacks is the support for folders. Before I started adding folder support I clicked my way through GitHub just to find this discussion. You guys are great, thanks for all the work and effort you're putting into this! I want to get my hands on the code and contribute, but am not sure how to proceed. I plan on putting up a Repository for the extension so everyone can fork and participate. What are your guys' plans? It seems as if Chrome lacks an open "syncing" extension, so I guess we have to work with some kind of extension, right? Thanks in advance for your time and the great work. Keep it up!

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There is another issue on syncing...
I think there is no need for a folder structure in the bookmarks since we already have a tag structure which could work really good. But it would be nice if your folder-titles would be converted to tag-titles when syncing from the browser.

@wtimme what is your idea of 'folder support'?

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Sounds like a good approach, although I think we should let the user do both. I just did a little research regarding bookmark handling in the browsers I have installed on my machine. This list of course is not complete, of course.
All browsers of course save the pages's title and URL, so in the following I only list the additional meta information the browsers support for bookmarks:

Chrome

• Folder hierarchy

Safari

• Folder hierarchy

Firefox

• Folder hierarchy
• Tags

The way I understand tags is that a bookmark can have none to (well, basically) unlimited. They do, however, only exist in one folder and not in multiple ones, so I do not think they work interchangeable.

I propose to keep the tagging system and add folders as well. Tags would in Chrome and Safari be added to the title (or, if we had a plugin, as additional meta information to the bookmarks) whereas the folder structure could be easily synced and are compatible with all the browsers I've tested.

@flause What do you think?

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Yes, you are right. Browsers like Chrome and Safari only support folder-hierarchy, which is a problem. Nevertheless I would suggest to use only one organization structure not two contrary folder-structure and tag-structure. It's not my intention to restrict the users in their possibilities, but to make the bookmark tool more efficient.
A solution could be to convert all the tags in folders when sync owncloud bookmarks to a browser.
Although that would mean that some bookmarks would be included in multiple folders, depending on how many tags they had, but that's actually not so bad.

cc @cnylnk @laburramuge

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@flause Well, in browsers that do not support tags but only folders this would lead to duplicated bookmarks and that would not be something that I wanted for my local bookmarks.

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I'll suggest we keep both Tags and Folders that the two operate independent of each other and are therefore able to complement each other... allowing Tagging collections of folders/bookmarks. For any Browser sync activity, use the folder system which matches how browsers currently operate. I have many hundreds of bookmarks collected over many years covering many different activities and interests. My own collection is large enough to render a tagging only system fairly useless, especially when only 10 tags at a time can be visible to the left (what did I call that Tag again?).

If I am forced to choose, I select Folders. I'd rather have both operating independently. I use Folders to collect together bookmarks the same way Tags appears to be intended to used. The difference is that with many hundreds of bookmarks I can group and subgroup bookmarks. The specific example I left here to start this discussion had to do with bicycles. I use mine for commuting, so research into each element of a bicycle operation tends to be thorough, containing sources, reviews for elements like fenders, headlight, taillight, battery systems, racks, and I collect all this research together in one folder called something like bicycle. I do this because invariably I get asked questions like, "Where did you find...?", "Why did you pick...?", "Did you look at...?" from other people doing the similar research for their own needs. Having a good bookmark system makes answering these questions fairly painless, and the answers I can provide from my own efforts complete and definitive.

A Flat approach like -only- tagging with only 10 tags visible to the left is almost unusable with hundreds of bookmarks. It gets to the point where you need an index just for tags. It is akin to saying we'll do away with directories/folders in the file system and only have flat files on a disk, no folders.

Comparing Bookmark requirements to the file system, keeping tags and folders separate is similar to how a file system can have folders and files for organizing and also attributes like UID/GID, R/W access, Date/Time, backup status, etc. With tags and folders separate, I could use tags at a higher level to collect together folders and bookmarks by subject.

I'd love to have both, separate, to make an even more powerful organization tool for Bookmarks. Make me choose, and I'll take folders implemented as today's browsers do for organizing large numbers of links.

If I could have both Tags and Folders to organize my bookmarks, I might use Tags as a "Project Name" to collect together all the components of a project. For instance a specific "Bike Trip" Tag might collect together information on Bike accessories, Destinations, Service resources, etc which might all be in different folders and or bookmark links. Or when I'm working on a project designing electronics or software, I might tag together a bunch of Folder/Bookmark information relevant to a meeting subject tag.

That's my 2¢. :)

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+1
I use tags in this very same way!
gs

Il giorno 14/nov/2013, alle ore 19:49, craigarno [email protected] ha scritto:

I'll suggest we keep both Tags and Folders that the two operate independent of each other and are therefore able to complement each other... allowing Tagging collections of folders/bookmarks. For any Browser sync activity, use the folder system which matches how browsers currently operate. I have many hundreds of bookmarks collected over many years covering many different activities and interests. My own collection is large enough to render a tagging only system fairly useless, especially when only 10 tags at a time can be visible to the left (what did I call that Tag again?).

If I am forced to choose, I select Folders. I'd rather have both operating independently. I use Folders to collect together bookmarks the same way Tags appears to be intended to used. The difference is that with many hundreds of bookmarks I can group and subgroup bookmarks. The specific example I left here to start this discussion had to do with bicycles. I use mine for commuting, so research into each element of a bicycle operation tends to be thorough, containing sources, reviews for elements like fenders, headlight, taillight, battery systems, racks, and I collect all this research together in one folder called something like bicycle. I do this because invariably I get asked questions like, "Where did you find...?", "Why did you pick...?", "Did you look at...?" from other people doing the similar research for their own needs. Having a good bookmark system makes answering these questions fairly painless, and the answers I can provide from my own efforts complete and definitive.

A Flat approach like -only- tagging with only 10 tags visible to the left is almost unusable with hundreds of bookmarks. It gets to the point where you need an index just for tags. It is akin to saying we'll do away with directories/folders in the file system and only have flat files on a disk, no folders.

Comparing Bookmark requirements to the file system, keeping tags and folders separate is similar to how a file system can have folders and files for organizing and also attributes like UID/GID, R/W access, Date/Time, backup status, etc. With tags and folders separate, I could use tags at a higher level to collect together folders and bookmarks by subject.

I'd love to have both, separate, to make an even more powerful organization tool for Bookmarks. Make me choose, and I'll take folders implemented as today's browsers do for organizing large numbers of links.

If I could have both Tags and Folders to organize my bookmarks, I might use Tags as a "Project Name" to collect together all the components of a project. For instance a specific "Bike Trip" Tag might collect together information on Bike accessories, Destinations, Service resources, etc which might all be in different folders and or bookmark links. Or when I'm working on a project designing electronics or software, I might tag together a bunch of Folder/Bookmark information relevant to a meeting subject tag.

That's my 2¢. :)

—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

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I didn't know Firefox had the ability to Tag Folders/Bookmarks until I read wtimme's post. I like Chrome's user interface but have been moving back to Firefox for a number of reasons. Tag's may be yet another reason to use Firefox as my primary browser. Thanks wtimme for pointing this out.

Now if we had both in OwnCloud, and the ability to sync (another non-trivial technology problem) among different desktops and devices...! Syncing is another big thorny issue. Time for a "BookmarkDAV" standard. ;)

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I just located a Window machine running IE. Turns out it does not support tags as well but just folders.

The ownCloud bookmark application currently uses the Netscape Bookmark File Format (see Microsoft's specification of said format here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa753582(v=vs.85).aspx). Firefox Sync, as far as I know, uses "Weave" (documentation of the services offered can be found here: http://docs.services.mozilla.com/index.html).

The way I see it we have the following possibilities:

• Stick to the current application and write add-ons for the most popular browsers that uses the Netscape Bookmark File Format.
• Ship Weave along the ownCloud bookmark application and set it up automatically with the most common configuration to make installing it as less pain as possible. This would only sync Firefox with ownCloud; we would still need to write a Chrome/Safari/IE extension that syncs with Weave.
• Invent/come up with our own format and sync protocol.

I recommend to not use a new, proprietary format. Instead, go with either the first or second solution. What do you guys think?

By the way, I started writing a Chrome extension that syncs with Chrome bookmarks with ownCloud using the Netscape Bookmark File Format. The extension is far from completed and can, for now, only login to ownCloud, add bookmarks and partly parses the Netscape Bookmark File Format. If anyone is interested I would be happy to share the code with you.

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I think there is a major issue which needs to be sorted out between the
first and second proposals.

The "major issue" is what are we trying to accomplish? A bookmark
server, or a full up sync server?

The way I see it we have the following possibilities:

• Stick to the current application and write add-ons for the most
  popular browsers that uses the Netscape Bookmark File Format.

This approach appears to be in keeping the original concept of OwnCloud
Bookmarks (I don't represent OwnCloud). As long as we can have
Bookmarks arranged with Folders and Tags in the OwnCloud UI and a sync
capability (leveraging existing [and working] WebDAV Services?), I
believe this is the cleanest approach.

What I'd want for sync, referencing your /14-Nov/ message is:

• Firefox / SeaMonkey: Sync OwnCloud Content with Folders and Tags
• MSIE: Sync OwnCloud Content with Folders and Tags
  Does the MSIE UI support tags? If the file format does, then for
  data consistency I would like tags included during Sync operations. The
  file format is the same as Netscape (now Firefox?) according to MS
  documentation (your link provided 15-Nov). As long as including tag
  info doesn't mess up MSIE operation, I prefer including tag data.
• Chrome: Sync OwnCloud Content with Folders
• Safari: Sync OwnCloud Content with Folders

Unfortunately a lot of people use MSIE, so it does need some level of
consideration. The reasons users like MSIE from what I've observed is
that it's delivered with MS operating systems, and regular MS-OS system
updates can't be performed without MS-IE. For testing my own stuff, I
have MSIE-6 (XP-SP2), MSIE-8 (XP-SP3), and MSIE-10 (Win7) installed. 6
and 8 are fairly broken for UI layout (don't support the PNG image
format used by OwnCloud) and SSL compatibility is barely functional, so
I'd suggest focus on MSIE-10 for Windows 7 and above as it's the first
MSIE product capable of using OwnCloud services. XP is hitting EOL.

Personally at this moment I'd be satisfied with Firefox Bookmark sync,
followed by Chrome Bookmark sync. Both Firefox and Chrome work fine with
OwnCloud under XP-SP2 and XP-SP3 (and Linux).

• Ship Weave along the ownCloud bookmark application and set it up
  automatically with the most common configuration to make
  installing it as less pain as possible. This would only sync
  Firefox with ownCloud; we would still need to write a
  Chrome/Safari/IE extension that syncs with Weave.

This approach would essentially replace Firefox Sync services. Syncing
would include:

• Bookmarks (Folders & Tags)
• Add-ons
• Passwords
• Preferences
• History
• Tabs

I think we have to look at this in the context of OwnCloud. What would
OwnCloud be doing with all this information? How would this information
be used in the Web UI? Are we making a Bookmarks app or an OwnCloud
full-up Sync app?

I personally would love to have this capability hosted on my own
systems, on my own disks, behind my own firewall. Realistically I think
we have to limit the scope to the original discussion, just Bookmarks.
Sync is a separate concept / app / function. And if it's included, how
would this information be used / managed through the OwnCloud WebUI?
How about sync support for other browsers which offer native full sync,
like Chrome / Chromium?

At this time, there are no standards for accomplishing full sync. So
you'd be implementing and maintaining individual vendor proprietary
solutions.

This will be a desirable feature as technology matures. It's a little
"green" at this time.

• Invent/come up with our own format and sync protocol.

Sounds too much like NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome. I've lived
through enough of this type of thinking in design. After taking
inventory of the bite marks on my rear-end, I have to agree, this is the
least desirable approach. To be considered, briefly, then dropped.

By the way, I started writing a Chrome extension that syncs with
Chrome bookmarks with ownCloud using the Netscape Bookmark File
Format. The extension is far from completed and can, for now, only
login to ownCloud, add bookmarks and partly parses the Netscape
Bookmark File Format. If anyone is interested I would be happy to
share the code with you.

I'm interested in trying to use your work for Chrome / OwnCloud!
(really!) Where is sync information stored? In Bookmarks? Or in the
WebDAV File area? How do you communicate with the OwnCloud Bookmark
app? Have you already solved some of the issues we're discussing? (wow)

I haven't been keeping track, am I up to 4¢ now? (I may need a cookie
jar) :-)

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I didn't mean to kill the conversation... anyone else have opinions / ideas? Mine certainly aren't the last word.

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Thanks for your detailed response, @craigarno !
You're correct: A full syncing server like Mozilla's "Weave" is way beyond the original idea of ownCloud's bookmark application. In the future, however, I would love to have "Weave" or some other kind of browser syncing application shipped with ownCloud as I do not trust a 3rd-party with my personal browsing data but want it to by synced across multiple devices. If we used "Weave" for that and start to develop Chrome/IE/Safari extensions to sync those browsers with "Weave" there could potentially be other developers out there who - just for being able to sync their browser with "Weave" - help developing and improving the extensions. Please don't get me wrong - I am not saying that "Weave" is the holy grail when it comes to syncing, but it is fully supported by at least one browser and has already gone through quite some iterations.
We could of course for the moment focus on the existing bookmark application for ownCloud. I'm going to upload the code I already have later so you can check it out and have a look at it. I just don't want to continue working on it when there is the possibility that we might abandon the bookmark application in favor of some more advanced browser syncing application.

Maybe someone from the official ownCloud team could voice their opinion on this?

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As promised I uploaded the code I have so far to a new repository: https://github.com/wtimme/chrome-owncloud-sync
Please keep in mind that the extension does not work at all and is simply the progress I made so far. If you are familiar with JavaScript please feel free to contribute. It will not sync the bookmarks yet, but enables you to login to your ownCloud instance (specify your ownCloud host in one of the JavaScript files). I also included a JavaScript parser for the Netscape Bookmark File Format that ownCloud's bookmark extension currently uses.

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If you're really passionate about implementing Weave, I'd say go ahead. If everything else is equal to you, then I'd suggest the Bookmarks only route. Which one do you think you might finish soonest? (most motivated to do?)

For Weave, an all out Sync application, I'd almost suggest a separate "sync" application, separate from Bookmarks. This will open the possibility of taking any functional direction which makes sense in the context of a Sync function without imposing "Bookmark" constraints. It does leave open the possibility of having Bookmark like ability in addition to many other possibilities, like password lookup, history browsing/editing/saving to bookmarks... many possibilities. You could start with porting bookmark code over to a Sync starting point.

Or Weave might fit better into the OwnCloud UI Framework if Weave Syncs to a specific OwnCloud URL for the Weave handler, and make separate OwnCloud apps for managing the Weave sync data:

• Bookmarks (Folders & Tags)
• Add-ons
• Passwords
• Preferences
• History
• Tabs

Just a few more ideas.

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What about SyncML? AFAIK, this protocol supports bookmarks sync.

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SyncML brings up a good point, what is the "client" audience (customer) for OwnCloud Bookmark Sync?

So far we've discussed Chrome, Firefox and possibly MSIE Bookmark "desktop" Sync. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SyncML describes a list of clients, servers, and languages of implementation. This list also describes mobile clients like iPhone, Android, iPad, and others.

It looks like syncEvolution could act as a bridge between DAV and SyncML technologies. https://syncevolution.org/

Here is a link to SyncML and WebDAV developer resources http://www.abdulqabiz.com/blog/archives/2011/01/25/caldav-and-syncml-resources collected during someone else's search for an answer.

An article worth reading about the issues of sync data is https://syncevolution.org/development/pim-data-synchronization-why-it-so-hard . Somewhere on this site is also explained that SyncML relies on making the server do most of the work comparing records / fields and updating data between client and server. I'm still reading it, but so far it does a good job of describing/detailing some of the pitfalls of designing your own solution. This description matches some of my own experiences with developing a "new" protocol, which on the surface usually appears "simple" and doesn't reveal complexity until it's too late to go back and you've acquired a few new bite marks for your efforts.

It looks like there was a lot of excitement to get SyncML in OwnCloud similar to what we're discussing around 2011.

It definitely is -not- clear to me which of these protocols, DAV or SyncML, is the winner. I'm still leaning slightly toward WebDAV which is already in OwnCloud with syncEvolution bridging. Maybe someone who's done real work in this area could share insight?

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I just ran across OwnCloud Mozilla-Sync effort https://github.com/owncloud/mozilla_sync

It looks a lot like the "Weave" effort @wtimme describes. Perhaps lending a shoulder to this effort will be most productive? Can this be modified to also support Chrome? OR conversly, Chrome Client Sync adapted through extension(s) to use the Mozilla Server model being implemented in OwnCloud?

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I added "Mozilla Sync" to my OwnCloud Apps. Then copied the Firefox recovery link to a safe place. Then grabbed the "Mozilla Sync" link from my OwnCloud "Personal" settings area [ https://myOwnCloudDomain.com/remote.php/mozilla_sync/ ] . And reconfigured Firefox to sync with the New sync server. I received the standard "Firefox Sync" page showing progress, then it finally says it is complete.

All magic to me so far. I don't know where my data resides for backup. When I execute in Firefox a "Tools > Sync Now" everything behaves as it did before (silence). All I see in the logs are a couple lines like:
192.168.90.7 - b27m4gkxgbczxkynv72daxtqkkm7p2bb [27/Nov/2013:15:41:33 -0800] "POST /remote.php/mozilla_sync/1.1/b27m4gkxgbczxkynv72daxtqkkm7p2bb/storage/tabs HTTP/1.1" 200 65

I guess it's working. I'm requesting that Firefox sync everything; Bookmarks, Passwords, History, etc...

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I just paired my laptop Firefox 24.0 with OwnCloud Mozilla-Sync. The experience is the same as Sync'ing with the Mozilla site Sync Server [Weave].

I feel a need to point out that while my Firefox data all appears to be stored in my own OwnCloud system (unverified), for the purposes of this discussion, my OwnCloud Bookmarks are still not sync'ed with Firefox. Syncing Firefox, Chrome, and MSIE with OwnCloud Bookmarks is what started this discussion.

A proposal was made to implement Weave. I believe the Mozilla-Sync Addon for OwnCloud accomplishes this task for Mozilla's 1.1 spec API. This still leaves Chrome out of the loop for both Weave and Bookmark Sync. Firefox is also not able to Bookmark Sync with OwnCloud in a manner which is usable through the OwnCloud Bookmark web interface.

So the original issue is still open. However one new item on the list now appears to be implemented [Weave].

Thoughts @wtimme ?

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Looks good. I am still not quite sure about using version 1.1 of the API. Isn't there a newer version of it available?
I also read through some older approaches on syncing Chrome with Weave. I will try to dig depper in in order to estimate how much time it would take to have a working Chrome Weave sync client once I got the time.

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owncloud-archive/mozilla_sync#33 talks about the Weave 2.0 API which isn't due to be rolled out at Mozilla until early to mid 2014 (just repeating what is said at this thread, not my words). As I understand it, the current OwnCloud Mozilla_sync supports the 1.1 API. @ogasser from the OwnCloud Mozilla Sync effort is suggesting work start on the OwnCloud Mozilla Sync 2.0 API prior to its rollout in 2014.

As I understand it from what little reading I've done at the Mozilla site, implementing a client, as you are proposing to implement for Chrome, is more challenging than implementing a server. So you may be right in wanting to target the newer 2.0 API. However, what will you test your work against? Maybe you could help spearhead the OwnCloud Sync 2.0 API effort proposed by @ogasser and assist implementing both 2.0 API server PHP in OwnCloud 6, and implement the 2.0 Client API in Chrome. Then with a little luck, meet or come close to the 2.0 API 2014 introduction date?

If this is where your passion lies, this may be a good route. This still leaves the issue of making browser bookmarks sync with OwnCloud bookmarks, as owncloud-archive/mozilla_sync#54 requests for Mozilla Firefox.

I'm just an observer in this with no pull, authority, or say. What would you like to do? What do you feel strongest about doing? And as you correctly point out, what can you personally afford the time to do? Some of this might depend on how much support you have working with you, or you with someone else on the same effort. Take a peek into https://github.com/owncloud/mozilla_sync and see what you think!

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Just an idea... Maybe it would be possible that the mozilla sync located on a ownCloud be the main 'storage' and that another new ownCloud app would sync the ownCloud bookmarks with the mozilla sync server.

Also, such an app could have the possibility to sync with the official mozilla sync servers..

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Note that several browsers (most notably Firefox) also have keywords, which allow you to easily access your favorite sites. It'd be nice to have them in addition to tags and folders.

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There is a WebExtensions addon that looks decent https://github.com/damko/freedommarks-browser-webextension

Ah, it doesn't sync, though.

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Hey, what steps are left to achieve full native synchronization via Nextcloud Bookmarks? Seems that at least some of this issue is resolved.

FreedomMarks extension is claiming compatibility with Opera, Safari and Microsoft Edge/Internet Explorer. Waiting for instructions from @damko on how to install and test.

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I would appreciate to have an Extension, an Add-On or a Plug-In respectively;[...]for automatically synchronizing my browser's native bookmarks with ownCloud.

1. This was kind of out of scope of this project to begin with.
2. Now, that there is a viable API available, it's possible to realize this.
3. There is at least one extension available that claims to do what was requested and is actively developed. ( https://github.com/marcelklehr/floccus )

Feel free to continue the discussion, but I'll close this issue for now. :)

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