So I hit up a friend with connections to people who actually make ventilators and thes

Re: project comparison with other projects The ideal scenari

Professional Insight?,about jcl5m1/ventilator

Comments (28)

Arif-I commented on September 15, 2024 2

hi, I am from Bangladesh and following your project. The situation is getting worse here and we'll def need more breathers. Even if this works with 40 or 50 % efficacy, that will be great help. I appreciate the effort of the community.

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jcl5m1 commented on September 15, 2024 2

I had a long call with a pulmonologist yesterday. Here are my notes:

https://github.com/jcl5m1/ventilator/wiki/Notes-from-chatting-with-a-pulmonologist

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rzeimer commented on September 15, 2024 1

i suggest that providing devices that can match ventilators is not fruitful. rather we should get feedback on what are the specifications that need to be added to CPAP like machines to be useful for the cases that are not severe, which will make a large population and put pressure on the resources.
we could then use existing CPAPs which abound

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commented on September 15, 2024 1

thanks i will look at those notes you sent me. -----------------------------------------------------------Good news. Impressive results from a study out of France showing: (excerpt: ".......At day 6 post-inclusion, 100% of patientstreated with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin combination were virologicaly curedcomparing with 57.1% in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine only, and 12.5% in thecontrol group (p<0.001)...." These two medications have been routinely carried in pharmacies for many years.The above was a modification from a successful study done in China many weeks ago so it seems its the real thing. ---------------------------------------At first thought, you might wonder if it is worth continuing with your project. The answer is for sure yes. If not in this country, the poorer developing countries would benefit as well as future viruses. I think world leaders have realized, that when it comes to critical aspects of healthcare, manufacturing your own (ventilators, masks etc) it is a matter of national security. I admire and am inspired by the effort of your group on Github, undaunted in the face of complexity. I really need to find you guys a RT. Thank you, Anthony Cabrera md, frcsc------------------------This information is directed in confidence solely to the person named above and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. This information may not otherwise be distributed, copied or disclosed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately via a return e-mail and destroy original message. Thank you for your cooperation. On Thursday, March 19, 2020, 07:21:35 a.m. EDT, Johnny Lee <[email protected]> wrote: I had a long call with a pulmonologist yesterday. Here are my notes: https://github.com/jcl5m1/ventilator/wiki/Notes-from-chatting-with-a-pulmonologist — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.

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commented on September 15, 2024 1

I did a quick scan of the notes, it strongly appears he is the real deal. As you know this area of medicine is far outside my scope. I find his comments encouraging and supportive of what you are trying to do. ac md------------------------This information is directed in confidence solely to the person named above and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. This information may not otherwise be distributed, copied or disclosed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately via a return e-mail and destroy original message. Thank you for your cooperation. On Thursday, March 19, 2020, 07:21:35 a.m. EDT, Johnny Lee <[email protected]> wrote: I had a long call with a pulmonologist yesterday. Here are my notes: https://github.com/jcl5m1/ventilator/wiki/Notes-from-chatting-with-a-pulmonologist — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.

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ErichBSchulz commented on September 15, 2024 1

Hiya - I'm a medical doctor (anaesthetist/anesthesiologist depending on where you live)- I've been collating note here:

happy to collaborate.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sdrKYQ0mDOu4bJum6Fx6piRutIJovo7UqFKYHHxUD5A/edit?usp=sharing

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mrquincle commented on September 15, 2024

What's their suggestion? Can they open source their hardware? Can they ramp up their production enough? Can they under NDA have other companies helping them to ramp up?

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peteflorence commented on September 15, 2024

Re: project comparison with other projects

The ideal scenario would be to ramp production of FDA approved ventilators.
There are parallel efforts to this project to do exactly that.
Given the possibility that these efforts might not meet global demand, then we should explore low cost, easy-to-manufacture ventilator options. Keep in mind this will be a global need, not just for privileged countries like the U.S., etc.
Parallel to this project, there are other low cost open source projects as well.

Given the importance of each day, we should have some parallel efforts (although probably not too many).

Re: technical questions

Regarding intubation with an endotracheal tube -- could somebody point to if we know that COVID patients actually need an endotracheal tube? This overview on ventilators (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk_Qf-JAL84) points out that there are two different use cases for ventilators. One (1) is that the patient can't protect liquids and solids from going down the trachea. Two (2) is that they can't breathe on their own. If the requirement is only for (2), it seems possible that an endotracheal tube is not required. Need doctor to advise.
If an endotracheal tube is needed, it could be added to the design.
"They were also concerned with the potential for the positive pressure gas exiting the patient to contain aerosolized virus." -- yes, need to make sure this is solved for and tested.
"Inflating patient’s lungs correctly (including being in sync with their respiratory drive)" -- it depends on the mode of operation of the ventilator. If the patient initiates the breath, then yes the event of the patient starting to inhale needs to be sensed. Note though that not all modes of operation require this. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk_Qf-JAL84 for more. Need a doctor to advise on which mode(s) are needed for COVID.

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jcl5m1 commented on September 15, 2024

The material I find online is very bipolar. This person falls in the "if you don't do it right, it's a terrible idea". The other camp, is bolting pieces of wood together to make something that might help. There's not much middle ground of helpful information which is "in an emergency, these are really the things that matter...".

Bag-Valve Mask Ventilators don't seem to require intubation to be effective.

If the environment already has a lot of infected patients coughing, won't there already be a lot of aerosolized virus?

When I tested it, it was very easy for me to match the rate driven by the machine. How important is it for the machine to match the person vs the other way around?

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peteflorence commented on September 15, 2024

FWIW -- I am hearing from doctor friends that in severe cases, intubation is required, but not always. Don't have data on the ratio.

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fireb0lt commented on September 15, 2024

Pressure support ventilators can be used with or without intubation. They can help prevent pneumonia from Covid19

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allen-munsch commented on September 15, 2024

"They were also concerned with the potential for the positive pressure gas exiting the patient to contain aerosolized virus." -- yes, need to make sure this is solved for and tested.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_scrubber

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commented on September 15, 2024

Re: pandemic ventilator- i am not a programmer - It is my first time on github and i am a bit lost- would someone, anyone, please call me ANYTIME asap. Anthony Cabrera md, frcsc---Tel: 1-905-923-1766 OR whatsapp: 34-653-08-58-41 (34 is for Spain but i live in Hamilton, ontario, canada) OR give me your number and location and i will call you back- FYI: email: [email protected]
thank you
Anthony Cabrera md, frcsc

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aris-t commented on September 15, 2024

So i started this thread as an attempt to stir up some technical considerations which we may be overlooking but a more experienced practitioner would point out right away. I was fully expecting the response ive been getting from my more conventional contacts of "if you don't do it right, it's a terrible idea". I don't subscribe to that im much more for if you can help at all you should. Therefore im reaching out to some less conventional but more open minded contacts now.

Overall seeing @peteflorence and @jcl5m1 comments this thread seems to be serving its purpose. Keep up the good work.

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allen-munsch commented on September 15, 2024

Also checkout : https://gitlab.com/TrevorSmale/OSV-OpenLung

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commented on September 15, 2024

https://www.amazon.com/Ventilator-Book-William-Owens-ebook/dp/B07D3142ZM/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=RESPIRATORY+THERAPY&qid=1584587296&sr=8-8 https://www.amazon.com/GREENS-RESPIRATORY-THERAPY-Practical-Respiratory/dp/1593309341/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=RESPIRATORY+THERAPY&qid=1584587393&sr=8-2 I AM CURIOUS IF ONE OF YOU WERE TO BUY THE BOOKS, HOW COULD YOU ALL ACCESS IT TO WORK ON IT.? IF YOU WOLD LIKE TO CALL ME BACK TO EXPLAIN PLS DO SO. Thank you, Anthony Cabrera ------------------------ This information is directed in confidence solely to the person named above and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. This information may not otherwise be distributed, copied or disclosed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately via a return e-mail and destroy original message. Thank you for your cooperation. On Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 02:40:43 p.m. EDT, aris-t <[email protected]> wrote: So i started this thread as an attempt to stir up some technical considerations which we may be overlooking but a more experienced practitioner would point out right away. I was fully expecting the response ive been getting from my more conventional contacts of "if you don't do it right, it's a terrible idea". I don't subscribe to that im much more for if you can help at all you should. Therefore im reaching out to some less conventional but more open minded contacts now. Overall seeing @peteflorence and @jcl5m1 comments this thread seems to be serving its purpose. Keep up the good work. — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.

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TimVanDyke commented on September 15, 2024

I've been talking to acab45 and he also shared this video with me and I thought it might be a bit helpful.

I think what we need to know here is basically what the use case we need to fulfill of a ventilator is.
As in, we need something along these lines (Please correct me if I'm wrong):
ex:
Patient has corona virus and needs a ventilator in AC (or whatever) Mode.
they need:

a minimum of x breaths a minute
They don't (or do if they do) need a ET Tube to go into their trachea
to monitor from u pressure to v pressure at y level precision
alarms for a, b, and c, scenarios
etc

with more clarity on what's needed it would really help get people moving towards that. So as we look for resources and people to talk to it'd be nice to be able to talk to an expert in building them if possible, but the next best thing would be an expert in precisely what's needed.

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commented on September 15, 2024

this book seems better for what you are tring to do: open free textbook; The Process of Breathing – Anatomy and Physiology The Process of Breathing – Anatomy and Physiology

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commented on September 15, 2024

VENTILATOR PROJECT-------------i will try to find a collaborative RT in Grand Rapids, MI) https://www.google.com/search?q=specifications+for+a+ventialtor&oq=specifications+for+a+ventialtor&aqs=chrome..69i57j33.5460j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9780721601861/mechanical-ventilation

…

---> http://www.kmscl.kerala.gov.in/ratecontractspec/Ventilator%20ICU.pdf https://www.venteclife.com/assets/media/1064/vocsn_tech-specs_current.pdf https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/application-note/DRM127.pdf

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A SEPARATE BUT VERY IMPORTANT PROJECT "facial air flow system" (very easy for you guys to design using off the shelf items, yet so critical for front line health staff in the context of "diy when supplies run out" ). I am working on the gown n hood...see images far below i need someone who understands eletronics to design /explain how to connect a common drill battery (ie ryobi ) to a fan blower unit and along this wire have a little rehostat turn knob to adjust flow. i will send a diagram of this tomorrow. IMPORTANT:---> Whatsapp for me is the best way to be able to send you all sorts of videos, images, audios, answer questions via audio back n forth etc from my smartphone. We can setup a group on whatsap so that i can send all of you information at once then you can curate it and put it up on github as you see fit.. my whatsapp is: create a new message inside whatsapp : 1)-remove default canada and select SPAIN in drop down 2)-enter 653085841 and 3)-send a test text Thank you, Anthony Cabrera ------------------------ This information is directed in confidence solely to the person named above and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. This information may not otherwise be distributed, copied or disclosed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately via a return e-mail and destroy original message. Thank you for your cooperation. On Thursday, March 19, 2020, 12:14:56 a.m. EDT, Tim Van Dyke <[email protected]> wrote: I've been talking to acab45 and he also shared this video with me and I thought it might be a bit helpful. I think what we need to know here is basically what the use case we need to fulfill of a ventilator is, correct? as in, we need something along these lines (Please correct me if I'm wrong): ex: Patient has corona virus and needs a ventilator in AC (or whatever) Mode. they need: * a minimum of x breaths a minute * to monitor from u pressure to v pressure at y level precision * alarms for a, b, and c, scenarios * etc — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.

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commented on September 15, 2024

https://twitter.com/charliekirk11/status/1240449295116931072?s=20 If the above is true and confirmed by other researchers, your ventilation machine may not be necessary 2 weeks from now. This malaria drug exists in major quanities across the USA and can be secured overnight given the emergency powers to cut red tape by Trump decree could start tx very soon for this indcation ac md ------------------------ This information is directed in confidence solely to the person named above and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. This information may not otherwise be distributed, copied or disclosed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately via a return e-mail and destroy original message. Thank you for your cooperation. On Thursday, March 19, 2020, 12:14:56 a.m. EDT, Tim Van Dyke <[email protected]> wrote: I've been talking to acab45 and he also shared this video with me and I thought it might be a bit helpful. I think what we need to know here is basically what the use case we need to fulfill of a ventilator is, correct? as in, we need something along these lines (Please correct me if I'm wrong): ex: Patient has corona virus and needs a ventilator in AC (or whatever) Mode. they need: * a minimum of x breaths a minute * to monitor from u pressure to v pressure at y level precision * alarms for a, b, and c, scenarios * etc — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.

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allen-munsch commented on September 15, 2024

Some techinical specifications can be found here :

Specification For RMVS Challenge.pdf

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commented on September 15, 2024

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/manufacturers-offer-to-produce-medical-supplies-to-help-with-coronavirus-194049973.html Thank you, Anthony Cabrera------------------------This information is directed in confidence solely to the person named above and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. This information may not otherwise be distributed, copied or disclosed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately via a return e-mail and destroy original message. Thank you for your cooperation. On Thursday, March 19, 2020, 11:16:50 a.m. EDT, James <[email protected]> wrote: Some techinical specifications can be found here : Specification For RMVS Challenge.pdf — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.

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commented on September 15, 2024

It is quite possible the canadian government that is funding the ventilator manufacturing push may end up keeping it open source. I have no idea. Perhaps during the process of creating the device they might file novel patents and create a company to sell all over the world. No idea. I am not sure how intellectual property issues will pan out. Thank you, Anthony Cabrera------------------------This information is directed in confidence solely to the person named above and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. This information may not otherwise be distributed, copied or disclosed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately via a return e-mail and destroy original message. Thank you for your cooperation. On Thursday, March 19, 2020, 11:16:50 a.m. EDT, James <[email protected]> wrote: Some techinical specifications can be found here : Specification For RMVS Challenge.pdf — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.

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commented on September 15, 2024

A big automotive manufacterer Martinrea here in Ontario appears to be all in on ventilators https://www.google.com/amp/s/business.financialpost.com/transportation/canadian-auto-suppliers-in-talks-to-build-ventilators-masks-during-coronavirus-crisis/amp - The content of this email is confidential and intended for the recipient specified in message only. It is strictly forbidden to share any part of this message with any third party, without a written consent of the sender. If you received this message by mistake, please reply to this message and follow with its deletion, so that we can ensure such a mistake does not occur in the future. On Thursday, March 19, 2020, 11:16 AM, James <[email protected]> wrote: Some techinical specifications can be found here : Specification For RMVS Challenge.pdf — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.

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maday commented on September 15, 2024

Johnny, I appreciate what you are trying to do and want to help. Posting this so that I can be part of the thread.

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MordiSacks commented on September 15, 2024

This might be helpful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnIpD1VwyMo

I have been following this channel for a while, very very good information

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RWL-69 commented on September 15, 2024

Hello, all.

I have not had a chance to look at everything linked in this thread but I wanted to make some comments.

My thought on this looks at why this project is so important at this time. A growing number of cases and a lack of hardware in many countries. As the cases increase that require a ventilator, the choice between one that provides all the bells and whistles and one that keeps someone alive disappears. There is even discussion in the USA about automatic DNR's for victims due to lack of equipment.

I agree with the idea of making one that can be built from automotive parts as a basic system as these parts can be grabbed from the street if need be. Adding in the various monitors and sensors is possible given a long enough lead time.

A summary sheet of what the limits are for a basic unit to a wish list of what would be nice for a complete unit would be a handy tool. A chart with check boxes might be the way to go.

If some of this could be attached to Wiki for the project, that would be a great reference.

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MordiSacks commented on September 15, 2024

Medtronic is sharing its portable ventilator design specifications and code for free to all

https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/30/medtronic-is-sharing-its-portable-ventilator-design-specifications-and-code-for-free-to-all/

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Professional Insight? about ventilator HOT 28 OPEN

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Re: project comparison with other projects

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