Thank you!! Edits made.

from home.

We've got the budget and agreed on it.

The engineers came out this week to finalise measurements. Production is imminent!

from home.

Showed Ben the attic and diagram. ✅
Made this quick video to explain how to navigate SketchUp: https://youtu.be/usVpdNQb-rk 📺
Emailed Ben with the diagram and video link. ✉️

from home.

We are 50% of the way there, but production has been halted whilst the government attempts to get a handle on the coronavirus spread in Portugal.

from home.

Wireframe:

from home.

Hand Rails?

Hand rail heigh: https://www.thespruce.com/stair-handrail-and-guard-code-1822015

obviously the site is American so all measurements are in inches... 🙄

The only measurement I'm interested in is "handrail height: 34 - 38 inches" (86.36 - 96.52 cm)
and the mid-term of 36 inches (91.44cm)

http://www.cbm.pi.gov.br/download/201404/CBM16_8f22b5db6d.pdf

The height of the hand rail is 92cm. That's what I'm going with.

from home.

Agreed, lots of good call outs there. The "question of availability" reminded me of the cost of context switching in creative deep work.

When do you think you guys will open if you don't mind me asking?
(please point me to the right channel for inquiry if/since this is probably not it)

from home.

Sadly, the hole in the attic where the stairs need to "fit" is only 1950mm long
whereas I drew the stairs 2390mm long

so I need to do a few hours of re-work. ⏳

I've added 3 todo list items to the first comment above.

from home.

@iteles i've re-drawn the stairs and would appreciate a second pair of eyes on the sketch before I proceed to drawing the hand-rails ...

LMK when you have a few minutes to review. (thanks!)

First flight: no longer any head-room issues on the 3^rd step.

Second flight:

Step 8:

Fourth Flight:

from home.

@iteles I uploaded an orbit ("fly around") for the model to YT:

https://youtu.be/rnmHd3NQChs

Here are a few stills we can share with people to give them idea:

please let me know what else is needed to move this forward.
If you can share the email address for the serralheiro (name escapes me) and Ben's number
I can candle the communications for getting this done.

from home.

A slight correction in terms of prices. Apparently the quote above was for only the stairs without the railing, which in itself €130/m.

Using your sketchup drawing @nelsonic, there are about 7 metres of railing:

• Measured along the ground: 1315+2189+1315+2189 = 7008mm
• Measured along the railing itself: 637+686+2113+1361+1952 = 6749mm

This adds €1119.30 to the cost (including IVA), totalling €2841 including IVA and that doesn't include the wooden steps. 😭 €2309 without the VAT.

from home.

Finished:

I'm just going to add the step numbers in (again) so it's easier to discuss/explain.
.then I will do the screenshots so we can print on A3

from home.

Searched for: "height rise staircase cm"
found: https://www.levelmaster.com.au/stair-calculator-stair-stringers/

https://www.levelmaster.com.au/wp-content/uploads/1-step-stringer-Drawing.jpg

from home.

You know when you think a task will only take "a couple of hours" ⏳
but it ends up being a "pandora's box" that takes 10x more time...?! 🙄

I did effectively "timebox" the task and remained focussed for the full amount of time I allocated to it.
I just woefully over-estimated my SketchUp speed and by the time I was getting into the "flow state" doing the 3D drawing, everyone was intent on interrupt my "flow".
I ended up spending 7 hours straight drawing only taking brief breaks for bathroom and water-bottle refills, but eventually got sucked into lunch with family.
And then when I got back to my desk there were 10 other things competing for my limited attention.

Side Note on Deep/Focus Work

One of the most frustrating things in (my) life is when the people who do not "produce" (creative work), and therefore do not understand what it takes to enter "deep work focus", insist on constantly interrupting the people who are desperately trying to focus. 😞

When the interruptions are for trivial things that have zero long-term importance/significance but must be discussed immediately, I increasingly feel like I am suppressing my rage. 😡

When children do it (because they do not yet understand the value of time or the scarcity of "focussed deep work"), that's totally understandable. As an adult, I cannot reasonably expect a person who has never felt extreme shortage of time to grasp that "focus time" is finite and fleeting, so my patience continues to be limitless for them. (if you don't know me, you won't realise how patient I am when it comes to the people in my life ... you may only see the "breaking of the camels back" event and think I am pathologically impatient, but the fact is that I consistently try for years to communicate with people in multiple ways and only "give up" after 20+ attempts!)

But the Adults who constantly complain that they don't have "enough time" (while still burning through 7-10h per week on TV or other mindless entertainment) constantly interrupt me when they can see that I am trying to do something on my computer that is clearly not admin, email/chat or other shallow "busywork" ... I feel immensely frustrated and want to escape the tyranny of the un-creative.

tl;dr > Moving On!

Anyway, I will finish my work on the Attic Spiral Stair Case and it will be considerably better than something a professional interior designer or experienced architect would conceive of.

The reason it's taking me a lot longer is that I am paying massive attention to detail and methodically taking the time to draw that detail so that the "metal shop" we are paying to manufacture the staircase has zero reason to get it wrong ... i.e. I'm taking as much "ambiguity" out of the "build phase" as possible by putting all of my effort into the Design.
This is "waterfall" because it is the only way the people we are working with understand how to work. 😞

from home.

Great side note on deep work!

Regarding the "waterfall" comment, I wonder how much of that the cost of agile being much higher for manufacturers of physical objects made out of metal. Or is it just historic/legacy process – it's just the way it's always been done? Thinking out loud, I wonder if they could iterate on smaller scale prototypes. Is that possible given the tooling/equipment in metal shops? 🤔

from home.

@codeanpeace It's mostly a historic/legacy mindset.
Most of the world is not "agile" in the way they think much less in the way they get their work done.
I totally understand in the case of metal work where having precise dimensions saves time/materials.
Having done metal fabrication, I feel that this staircase will take about a week to manufacture.
If one measurement in the design is "off" then the whole thing will be off.
So getting this "right" up-front is the only way of saving time/materials in the long-run.
Also it's a question of availability, the metal shop do not want to "stop-and-start" the work,
they want to do it all in one go. Again, this is understandable as they need to plan their workflow.
In software we can afford to be way more flexible because there is no "storage cost" for work-in-progress; the only "cost" we have is cognitive "task switching time"; which is comparatively simple.

from home.

I'm still busy editing the "making of" video but here's a screen cap:

from home.

I think I need to be in the spot of the staircase to consider it properly.

I would say that it's pretty much the same price as a custom built one, so if we're going to have to adapt it anyway, it may be worth our while basing the design on this but just getting our one built from the get-go.

Let's check it out on Monday when we're @home for meetings with the electrician, plumbers & architect 👍

from home.

With regards to alojamento local, as long as we adhere to basic safety regulations (banister heights and slip-proof protection on the steps) then there are no other specific regulations for staircases. LM products are made for residential so I hope we find someone who knows what they're talking about!

I'd previously discussed this with you (note this price doesn't include installation):
http://www.leroymerlin.pt/Site/Produtos/Madeiras/Escadas/Escadas-de-interior/13925492.aspx

Agreed our best bet is to check it out on Monday both on location and in Leroy Merlin 👍

from home.

@iteles as discussed, when the central support column is centered in the in the ceiling gap we get:

It's not a fatal error, just an alignment issue.

I'm going to spend the next couple of pomodoros 🍅⏳ re-drawing the walls and ceiling to calculate exactly the distance from the column to the wall. And then I will add in the hand-rail. 📝

from home.

@nelsonic Shall we meet tomorrow to see what we we think of the quote we have been given here and what we need to send back for an updated one? The stairs will take 3-4 weeks to have made and without them it will be hard to finish the flooring on that landing, so I'm adding a p2 to this 📈

from home.

@iteles 08:00? 🕘

from home.

@iteles as you wrote above, last week I took a few more measurements and added in the attic opening.
The the opening into the attic had not yet been finalised when I started drawing the stairs ...
Now that the attic is further along, the constraints are finalised.

3 issues

While re-working the diagram, I noted the following issues:

1. Step 3 & 4 Need to be Re-Drawn

After expanding stairs 5, 6 & 7, we are left with a bit of re-work on the 3rd and 4th step:

2. Re-drawing Step 8 to Reach Wall

Expanding steps 5, 6 & 7 to reach the wall is easy:

But it means that we need to re-draw step 8 ...

3. Shoulder Space on Steps 8, 9 & 10

As you can see in the following screenshot, the model is standing on step #9 and it's "useable" ...

But if the model is placed in the middle of the step, a more realistic UX, his shoulder is cut off.

Given this 3^rd issue, which is going to require a ton of re-work,
I've decided to use this first design as a learning opportunity.
See: https://course.ccs.neu.edu/cs5500f14/Notes/Prototyping1/planToThrowOneAway.html

Next: I'm going to re-draw the stairs from scratch with the constraints in place.

While searching for "sketchup stairs" I came across this good intro:

If you are following along and ever need to draw stairs without overhead constraints, go for it.

from home.

😱 This is a great learning opportunity (imagine if we'd let the metal smith go ahead and make the stairs and then this happened?) but what a lot of work to re-do from scratch 😬 Can I help? Even at the scribble-on-paper-thinking-out-loud stage? Or is it more of a 1 person job?

from home.

@iteles as discussed verbally in our catch up this morning, I'm going to do some adjustments:

• re-draw steps 7,8,9,10 to have more space for the "outside" hand rail.
• add in numbers on stairs (like I had above) to aid in the discussion.
• draw the "inner" hand rail until step 6

Expecting this to take an hour.
Will show you once complete.

from home.

FYI: The pattern for the numbers on the stairs corresponds to the foot the person would use assuming they start walking up/down the stairs with their right foot and alternate.

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@nelsonic I told him I'd send him the relevant detail and he said he'd take a deeper look into this today. If not, then I'll pass this question to one of our architects (and also look up the regulamento for alojamento local).

from home.

I have now spoken to the architects who created our fire safety plans (sorry, he was a hard man to get hold of) and they've confirmed that for access to the attic, this isn't a problem. He will review whether we need to have additional fire safety doors in the corridor below but in the meantime, we can go ahead with the staircase 👍

from home.

Recap of Sketchup Follow Me Tool

Extruding Shapes Along Paths With the SketchUp Follow Me Tool:

https://youtu.be/Uw4lSXOFLMU

This is always fun ...

from home.

@iteles when you have 5 mins, please visit my desk so that we can go through the model.
(I will continue filling in the vertical safety bars until then...)

from home.

Spoke to the ironmonger today and he says the budget remains the same (from a cursory glance over the drawings we sent him) and includes setting the stairs up in place. The only thing it doesn't include is the wooden steps themselves (just the metal support for them).

However, he cannot start until mid August. I told him we'd get in touch end of July to meet up with him, agree the details and figure out his exact dates 👍

from home.

Yeah, if we're in the same room, might as well show him the Sketchup on screen. 👍

from home.

We now have both budgets for the stairs.

All built in wood would be €2,800 which is prohibitively expensive.

Built in iron, but not including the wooden steps, would be €1,722.

According to the blacksmith (?), he can have the stairs in by the end of the third week of September if we give him the green light. It is without a doubt the best timeframe we're going to get as most of the other blacksmiths have told us that they're out of commission for another few months!

I vote we move ahead with this and get them in so we can sort out the flooring before the end of the month too.

from home.

@iteles 100% move ahead with the metal and please ask him if we can see the progress when he feels he has reached 50% completion (i.e. we visit his workshop to confirm in-person).
Thanks. 👍

from home.

Yesterday we met with Manuel and Carlos to review the designs and brainstorm further ideas ...

We discussed the idea of using UPN steel profile (UPN beam) for building the

Spec: https://www.montanstahl.com/products/stainless-steel-structurals-bright-bars/stainless-steel-channels/european-standard-channels-upn/

I'm in the process of removing the handrail so that I can re-position the steps ...

Then I'm going to add the UPN profile including risers and a glass side (safety) panel.
I estimate this will take me 4 hours. Going to listen to an audio book while I'm working. 👍

from home.

Removed everything except the constraints (walls and floor) and I'm re-starting from scratch. 🙄😉

from home.

I would love to try astroturf, but if it's too much or looks shabby or is just too difficult to keep clean (when you can't just hose it down like we can outside) in the long run, we'll need to jut do away with is and it needs to look ok then too!

Can I have my cake and eat it too? 😬

from home.

@iteles through research, it appears that Astroturf can be cleaned the same way as carpet;
with a vacuum cleaner. Depending on how dusty it gets maybe only once a week like in MDC.

https://youtu.be/VA6M6GC0dRM

from home.

@nelsonic It would certainly be my preference to implement the glass hand rail on the main staircase, but we are still waiting for budgets so if it is prohibitively expensive, it won't make sense to do it this way. I'm hoping it will because I'm very keen to preserve the floating staircase, it's a central pillar of the house's design.

I am much less fussed about continuity between both staircases than you are @nelsonic. I think they will already be different enough from each other that hand rail continuity is not the be-all and end-all. Chiefly, I think that having a glass hand-rail for the attic staircase may be a problem for those who suffer from vertigo, so we'll have to watch out for these people!
It would, however, be the most aesthetically pleasing option, so a great starting point!

Let's go to Magni Vertente tomorrow: http://www.magnivertente.com/index.php/contact

from home.

@nelsonic Done! 💪

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Derp! I just clicked on the pdf and it only has one image ...
New file: braga-escada-sotao-v26-imprimir-12-pag.pdf

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I called to ask for the quote with just the glass and followed up with an email too. Hopefully we'll get one next week and can make a final call on this.

Assigning it back to you for the designs 🙏 ❤️

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Making progress in re-drawing the staircase in Fusion 360: https://a360.co/2WeT5pj 👷

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I've finished the 14^th step: https://a360.co/2WeT5pj

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I've spent the last couple of pomodoros drawing and re-drawing the first steel (right) side brace for the first 3 steps: https://a360.co/2WeT5pj

My objective is to minimise the width of the steel to avoid losing the "floating" step effect.
@iteles if you have time in your next break to come to my (standing) desk and pair/peer-review, please do.

from home.

@iteles as previously discussed, when I went to visit the Magnivertente workshop,
I saw this metal staircase that was being fabricated that will have wood applied to the treads (hence the holes on the metal cross sections) and glass slotted into the gap (on the bottom of the photograph below)

The design of these stairs is meant to be sleek and the glass will slot into the gap perfectly:

I am re-drawing the stairs with this in mind.

from home.

Always fun when the software crashes ... 🤦‍♂

"close unexpectedly" indeed. 🙄
Anyway ... get up and keep going. 👍

from home.

Done. https://a360.co/2WeT5pj

@iteles please open the link and use the orbit/pan tool to inspect the design. 🔍
This is what you should see when you open it in your web browser:

When you have time to discuss/review it, please let me know (probably best on my monitor...)
Thanks! 🌻

from home.

@iteles thanks for making changes to the email draft.
To avoid further delay, I've sent the email:

Do you think we should call them tomorrow morning e.g 10:00 to follow up?

from home.

Sounds great, thank you!

from home.

Downgraded to p2 but completely out of our hands. All workers in the metalworking part of the factory are home and the glass section is working at half mast.

I have requested that the glass be completed and put to one side asap and will call back in 2 weeks to check on the situation post initial quarantine.

from home.

Everyone is expected to be back to work next Monday and the majority of the stairs have been completed.

_Tentatively, the setup of the stairs in position have been scheduled for Monday 27-Apr-2020.

On Tuesday I need to call them to:

• Confirm that the finish on the staircase should be white
• Get a final date for the installation of the stairs so that we can book in moving ahead with #120

from home.

Using Hollow Mild Steel Tube to construct the frame/structure for the staircase:

The rectangular tubing on the right to be specific.

Searched for: "rectangular tube sizes and weights"
found: https://www.metalsupplies.com/products/mild-steel-hollow-section

Using: 80 X 40 X 5MM (RHS) RECTANGULAR STEEL HOLLOW SECTION (8.13 KG/M)

from home.

20180405-plantas-electricidade-REV02-Francisca-FINAL.pdf

from home.

@iteles I have a question regarding the ergonomics of the Spiral Staircase:
When a "user" reaches the 3^rd step, the 13^th step "sticks out" 20cm above the person's head and the height between the 3^rd step, the 13^th step is 1695mm (169.5cm). The height between the top of the 3^rd and bottomor of the 14^th step is 1870mm (187cm) this means 90% of people around the world will "clear" it. (see below)

This is much easier to understand/explain if you either look at the drawings below: (or visit my desk)

Not trying to "decapitate" the human in this render, just to show you which are the 13^th and 14^th steps respectively:

Essentially if people use the stairs in a "normal" way, i.e. they walk in the middle of the stairs,
there is no problem because the 13^th step does not "stick out" far enough to interfere withe the person's head and the 14^th step is high enough that 90+% of people will clear it.

via: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/10th-50th-and-90th-mass-and-height-percentiles-for-male-and-female-adults-for-Caucasian_tbl1_51180593

With the exception of a few giants from the Netherlands 🇳🇱🙄,
the gap between the 3^rd and 14^th step will be fine for 90% of people.
I feel that the ceiling height in the Attic rooms will be the bigger "constraint" for the taller people.

What do you think? 🤔

from home.

I don't think that the 14th step is an issue, although there is a chance that as you're going down the stairs you're actually bouncing (and on a bounce up there's always the danger you hit your forehead if you aren't paying attention), so we need to coat that stair in something spongey anyway just as a preventative measure.

My concern would be for the 13th step, which people could also hit the back of their head on when they're heading up the stairs and not really seeing it.

Two things that may ameliorate the situation would be:

• Increase the height of each step from steps 10 to 17 so that even if step 17 is flush with the floor of the attic, that's not an issue
• Increasing the width of steps 1 to 4 so that people side-step the problem as they will be going up and down next to the railing which will essentially pull them away from the steps

What do you think? Would either of those help?

P.S. This drawing is awesome! 🚀

from home.

For reference, this is the spiral staircase we had considered from Leroy:

http://www.leroymerlin.pt/Site/Produtos/Madeiras/Escadas/Escadas-de-interior/13925331.aspx

158cm is the diameter. Each step is 75cm which conforms to the "Regulations" as does the rail heigh and spacing between each vertical bar (cannot be more than 10cm wide so people cannot get their heads stuck between bars...)

Side note: what's up with Leroy Merlin's website being "Not Secure"...? 😕

@iteles I feel that we should seriously consider this staircase from Leroy and "adapt" it to our needs by extending the central pilar to the full height of the attic ceiling.
The only reason we did not consider it before was because we need the first and last steps to be offset (as per my drawing), but I think we should re-imagine it next time we visit @home and see if we can make this "store bought" one "work" to save both time and uncertainty.

Thoughts?

from home.

@iteles the 118cm version (ignore the color) fits our dimensions/needs better:

http://www.leroymerlin.pt/Site/Produtos/Madeiras/Escadas/Escadas-de-interior/13928474.aspx

I "vote" that we visit LM on Monday and discuss our needs with the (hopefully knowledgeable/competent) people in the store and see if we can make this work.

I agree that the price of the store-bought stairs is similar to the custom-built on the surface.
But you are only looking at the "quote" price, not the time it's going to take "back-and-forth"
or the probability that the custom-build will conform to all regulations.
The last thing we need/want is someone from the council vetoing our "alojamento local" request because the stairs aren't perfect which then would mean we have to rip out the custom-build and go back to the drawing board.

https://www.loftcentre.co.uk/fontanot-oak-90-adjustable-modular-stair-kit

from home.

We went to LeroyMerlin in January to ask if the 118cm ready-made staircase would fit.
Sadly, it requires 130cm for installation, so we would need to cut another beam ("viga") which would weaken the attic's integrity. 😞

@iteles as you suggested above ⬆️ I widened the bottom 3 stairs from 600mm to 750mm (extra 15cm)

This means people have more space to clear the 13th step.
LMK your thoughts.

from home.

My plan is to remove the 17^th step which will reclaim 290mm of length:

2390mm - 290mm = 2100mm this is still 150mm (2100-1950) longer than the gap we have.
This means we need to adjust the rise between the stairs to compensate for the "loss" of this step.

The rise between each step is 175mm (my aim was to match the "main" staircase which has a rise of 175mm but this is not necessary as attic/spiral staircases can have rises between "tread" up to 220mm)
https://www.britishsc.co.uk/building-regulations-for-spiral-staircases

The rise between the 16th step and the attic floor is 249mm

249-175 = 74mm
We could either increase the rise on each of the 16 remaining steps by (74 / 16 =) 4.625mm
OR we could increase the rise on steps 10 - 16 by (74 / 7 =) 10.57mm (or 11mm per step).

@iteles going to move ahead with the plan described herein.

• remove step 17
• increase rise of 10-16 by 11mm

from home.

Agreed, thanks for putting in all the time to update this!

from home.

The amounts we need to shift (increase the rise of) each step by:

• 16 > 74mm
• 15 > 63mm
• 14 > 52mm
• 13 > 41mm
• 12 > 30mm
• 11 > 20mm
• 10 > 10mm
  e.g: BEFORE
  

AFTER:

I've increased the height of the rise on the steps 10 to 16 by 10-11mm:

from home.

Attic opening re-drawn:

View from top:

My next and final step is to draw the hand-rail.
But I would like to get it right the first time ...

@iteles at this point I feel it would be wise to re-measure the positioning of the attic opening in relation to the main staircase in order to draw the wall west wall of the gents bathroom.
That way I can be certain if I can increase the width of steps 4 - 7 (to make them touch the wall)
and create a sense of space on these steps.

from home.

@nelsonic We went to the house and re-measured the wall and positioning of the opening.
I think we should send the staircase drawing to the metalworker for a quote before_ taking the time to add in the railing as this will not be a fast task and the sooner we get a quote, the sooner we know if we want to commission it from him as soon as the drawings are done.

from home.

@iteles it's a pretty painful learning experience from an effort perspective given how many hours it took me to draw the first version and I could have got it "right" from the beginning if I'd had the constraints finalised when I started ... 😕 But I'm glad that I have the chance to re-work it virtually before spending the cash/time on making it out of metal. ☀️

I've input the constraints into a fresh drawing:

If you want to visit my desk and pair on discussing the design of the stairs now would be the time, I have a blank canvas and can do anything with it. 👨‍🎨 🎨 🖌

from home.

2910 + 170 = 3080mm (total height from one floor to the next)
3080 / 16 = 192.5mm the rise for each step. (yes this is more than the 17cm of the main staircase so it will feel steeper, but it's less than the maximum allowable which is 22cm)

If you're interested in the technical terminology in Portuguese I'd recommend this video:

https://youtu.be/b5kvRGHzMZs
Or if you prefer to read, go with: escadas.pdf
from: http://www.civil.uminho.pt/lftc/Textos_files/construcoes/cp2/Cap.%20I%20-%20Escadas.pdf

I know that if I didn't have the constraints imposed by the attic opening, I could make perfect stairs ...
but given the constraints, I can work within the guidelines/law to achieve a compromise.

from home.

As calculated above, we can have 16 steps with a rise of 192.5mm this includes both landings
The actual number of treads is 14 which means we need to re-calculate the rise:
3080 / 15 = 205.33mm (again, this is still well within the 220mm max rise per tread listed above)

Depth

620/2 = 310
550/2 = 275
1250/4 = 312.5

Width

620 -

from home.

I've done the re-work for steps 7-10 and added the step numbers in:

Going to work on the inner handrail now.
Guidance on handrail "graspability": https://inspectapedia.com/Stairs/Handrail_Graspability.php

92cm

from home.

When I started drawing the 2nd version of the stairs I thought that designing stairs to fit in the constraints was achievable ... but I'm having second thoughts while attempting to read all the relevant regulations, it appears that the minimum width of stairs should be 80cm ... 😞

As noted above, when we were initially doing the research for the attic stairs #30 (comment)
Leroy sells a spiral staircase that is 55cm wide:
http://www.leroymerlin.pt/Site/Produtos/Madeiras/Escadas/Escadas-de-interior/13928474.aspx

I'm confused if the Leroy spiral staircase is legal ...

Regulamento Geral das Edificações Urbanas (RGEU) Decreto-Lei n.º 64/90

Sadly, the regulations aren't well laid out at all! (there are no tables or diagrams, only blocks of text!)
https://dre.pt/pesquisa/-/search/332912/details/maximized

Article 32 appears to suggest that we cannot have stairs narrower than 120cm:

Article 18 appears to say that we are forbidden from having only a spiral staircase

The Minho University (civil engineering department) guidance has a more helpful layout (bullet points):
http://www.civil.uminho.pt/lftc/Textos_files/construcoes/cp2/Cap.%20I%20-%20Escadas.pdf

http://www.l3garquitectos.pt/uploads/2/3/6/9/2369524/rgeu_-_dln.38382-1951.pdf

@iteles Who can we ask about this? 🤔
I don't think I should continue drawing until we are able to clarify this.

from home.

@iteles any luck asking your architect cousin (Seb) ⛵️
or one of the many other competent/qualified people we have worked with...? 💭

from home.

Found this useful: https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Stair_design

from home.

Persevered ...

from home.

The sketchup model is: https://github.com/ideaq/home/blob/master/attic/attic-staircase-v25.skp
People can use the free Sketchup Viewer: https://www.sketchup.com/products/sketchup-viewer
to inspect the model and get any measurements relevant to building the real thing.

from home.

Now that the hatch door is complete #43 I've sent the drawings to the serralheiro to see when he'd have availability for this.

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I'm fine with starting mid-august for the Attic Stairs because we don't need to use the space up there until then. (might be good to temporarily seal off the attic and forget about it till the stairs are ready ...) Meanwhile I will work on the https://github.com/nelsonic/braga-houseparent-tiny-home which will have attic access (albeit not to the whole attic).

Question: what do you think about asking Ben if he's interested in helping with the staircase?
We could easily make it out of wood and it would have comparable durability.
FSC Wood is arguably a more sustainable than Mild steel and it might also look better ... 🤔

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@nelsonic Making the attic staircase or the houseparent staircase?

We can certainly show him your drawings when he's out here at the end of next week.

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Sure. Let's do that. 👍

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Do you have some extra print outs for today or shall I print these off now?

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@iteles I don't have any extras. Should I connect to the printer and print something specific off?

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Or just show him on the computer and see what he thinks?

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Managed to get a hold of Manuel today and we agreed to meet Saturday morning at 09h00 the obra to discuss what needs to be done.

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@iteles why the 😕 ...?

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Was hoping you wouldn't have to start from scratch altogether!

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@iteles given that the thickness of the stairs is increasing and the positioning of some of the stairs is moving due to the removal of the central column, it's much easier to start from scratch with the "old" design as a reference.

We also discussed putting astroturf on the treads (steps) ...

Should I design with this in mind?
Or just assume we are using wood treads?

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Glass side protection on stairs examples. Courtesy of Supplier portfolio:
http://www.magnivertente.com/index.php/portfolio/portfolio-4-columns

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For illustration, here are the first two steps using U-Beams to clamp the wooden step
and 50mm square tubes as the "risers" connecting the steps:

I don't "like" it, it's just an interpretation.

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50x25mm U-Beam with 50x25mm Rectangular tube as risers, cross bars connecting two sides:

I still think that using the U-Beams, and thus forcing us to have to machine each step to fit,
is an unnecessary complication as it adds a ton of work in terms of carpentry for not much benefit.

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Last Friday we sat and sketched the idea of having a glass handrail / barrier for the main staircase:

The idea being that the 10mm toughened safety glass would be fixed to the stairs using metal fixings (pink in this drawing to highlight their position) and the glass would be secured to both the middle floor and landing (half way up the staircase) which would support the floating stairs and provide protection from falling.

@iteles how likely is it that we will implement this "ultra modern" handrail for the Main staircase to preserve the "floating" stairs look/feel?

and do we want to draw the Attic staircase with continuity from the main staircase in mind?

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50x25mm U-beam profiles with 50x25mm Rect Tube risers (25x25mm square tube for 3-4 step riser):

@iteles thoughts?

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I'm up to step 8 and I have a good feeling about this version:

Going to keep going till you have time to come over and see it in-person. 👍

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I've added the step numbers:

@iteles here's a PDF of the screenshots that need to be printed on A3 (if you're connected to Printer):
braga-escada-sotao-v26-imprimir.pdf

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I painted each segment of the sketch with a color specific to the type of material (bar/profile) used:

This makes it much easier for the fabricator/metalworker (Manuel) to see what is what.

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@iteles I don't know if you saw my email, I don't have Manuel's email so please forward PDF to him:

Thanks! 🌻

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I've added the glass side panels to the design:

We can visit the Glass Supplier(s) ASAP and get their feedback and request quote(s).

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@iteles did we get a quote from Manuel in writing? (email)
or is he still doing quotes verbally? 🙄

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@nelsonic Still verbally.

Did you get a quote from the São Frutuoso vidreiros for just the glass?

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@iteles no, no quote for just the glass because I did not know I/we needed one. 💭

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Woah, that's looking amazing! 😱
I just had a phone call now from the glass folks saying that they would need to see the drawing again in order to give us a quote for just the glass so this is very timely 🎉

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@iteles I don't know if it's "amazing" ... 🙄
it's just a re-implementation of the same thing I had before in Sketchup... ⏳
It's like learning a new programming language and re-implementing the same "hello world" program. 🤦‍♂
(perhaps this is a bit more complex than "hello world" but it's how I feel ... I wish I didn't have to switch "languages" [ 3D modelling software ] ... but I had to bite the bullet for all the CNC work I need to do next...)

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@iteles I have prepared a draft of the email reply to the supplier:

Bom dia {name},

Muito obrigado pela sua resposta ao nosso pedido de orçamento.
Peço desculpa pela demora, tivemos várias questões a resolver do nosso lado antes de poder avançar e agora podemos voltar à parte que interessa: escadas para o sótão!

Transferi o desenho para Fusion 360: https://a360.co/2WeT5pj , que permite ver/manipular o desenho em 3D com mais detalhe e descarregar uma versão em qualquer formato (DXF, DWG, etc.) para ver os componentes.

Queríamos então avançar com as escadas, pedindo para este efeito que marquemos uma visita/reunião convosco no local da obra o quanto antes, para confirmar as medidas.

A nossa morada é: {@home-address}

Atenciosamente,

Nelson

{email-signature}

Please check the above (make any edits in the text) and let me know when I can send it!
Thanks! ☀️

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