Solar Panels? about home HOT 41 OPEN

There was a delay in the delivery of the batteries, which should arrive at the end of next week.

Installation of everything has been booked in starting on 22nd July 2019.

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Our solar panels have been working properly since late March 👍

We're now around the height of Summer:

(Those minimums are a joke, I wish it cooled down overnight but at 23h00 it's still 30 degrees out!)

And our outputs are looking pretty good!

Just after 11am:

And peak production around midday:

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We received confirmation on 3-Feb-2020, after some testing on our part, that there is a bug with the 'medidor' software so it is not measuring and therefore not dispensing the correct amount of energy to meet the (currently low) household needs.

Following up on this next week.

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Batteries and inverters have now been dispatched from Germany and are expected 11-Sep-2019.
Installation this week or next at the latest.

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Another delay.
Email from the transporter (in German, thank you Google Translate):
I can assure you 100% that the goods were picked up on 04.09.2019 and on the way to Portugal. Unfortunately, the shipment did not arrive punctually and therefore missed the departure on Thursday (05.09.2019) to PT. Therefore, the goods were loaded with the next departure and is now on the way to PT. We very much regret the incident. Delivery 18.09.2019.

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We got our latest electricity bill which hadn’t changed and called them.

All the equipment is hooked up but apparently they haven’t started it yet because they require WiFi to ensure that the flow of energy is correct and everything working properly, particularly before our power is increased.

We agreed they would start everything up with a WiFi hotspot (obviously) and will let me know which day this will happen.

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🤦‍♀️ I had already started writing the above and the issue only updated with your latest comments when I submitted it @nelsonic

That'll teach me for getting distracted with emailing people part-way through a comment!

I had already emailed them both the drawing and the request for the updated quote 👍

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Chased today for the SCOP (to know whether we will need to by law have solar panels for the heat pumps specifically) and also for the spec of the solar panels for the heat pumps.

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Have been chasing constantly but no joy.

In the meantime, now that we have a date for the roof #35, I've emailed the photovoltaics guys to see what we need to decide/put in place ahead of this getting done.

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@iteles as you say, the supplier that has their HQ nearer to @home is preferable.
I don't think it would hurt to get a quote from the Povoa people to determine if they are competitive ... but from reading their marketing material last time we were there, their panels were more expensive ...

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Confirmed we will have only photovoltaics as the solar panels for the heat pumps would mean that any energy produced from these panels after the water was hot would just be wasted. With photovoltaics, we can store this extra energy and it won't go to waste.

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The technician from DAPE will be there at 09h00 tomorrow morning (Wednesday 3-Jul-2019) to discuss anything that needs to be done with the roofers.

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I spoke to the solar panel company yesterday and they are expecting the battery and inverters this week (but they said that last week so I'm not holding my breath).

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@iteles means we need Bruno to "inject" the solar power into the mains so that we can test it. 😉

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These are now installed however, when the solar panels were put on the roof, the guttering #67 was bent, so we discovered this week that ALL the water was collecting in the South corner of the house and the weight of the water was almost about to pull the guttering off the roof.
It was also causing ALL of the water coming off the roof to rush down and into the garage, causing a small flood across the whole basement level.

The flooding issue has now been sorting by digging a path for this water towards the garden whilst we wait for a more permanent solution but the gutters will need to be fixed.

I have spoken to Carlos from DAPE (solar panels) and we'll see whether the solution will be to get Ze Manuel/Rafael out to fix them or whether DAPE will sort it out.

The solar system will also be connected to the electricity system this week.

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This has now been completely installed, both on the roof and hooked up to the electrical circuit (completely in early November 2019).
It should already be working, producing electricity that can be used in the house.

There are two steps missing here:

• Final paperwork for EDP: There needs to be paperwork submitted so that we can feed our extra electricity into the EDP network (the panels will be directed for home use first, then fill the batteries and only if there is spare electricity being produced will it be fed into the EDP network) - this can only be done after our electricity supply has been increased #70
• Internet: Once we have the network up and running, they will come back and hook us up with the application so that we can see electricity production and flow.

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@iteles should we place the order with the ISP today so that we can get this ball moving?
The amount we are paying each month to EDP to run our dehumidifier almost outweighs the cost of broadband! And we are going to need a lot of electricity very soon to heat water which was the whole point of getting the solar panels ...

The conclusion of our research last year is still the same: MEO Fibra 1GB €38,99/mês (the fastest)
https://www.meo.pt/pacotes/fibra/outros-pacotes

Can I place the order today?

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The question above was moved to #107.

The plan is for the solar panel folks to come today (20-Jan-2020) and get them up and running using a hotspot.

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Now that the internet has been hooked up, I've called the solar panel folks to come back and finalise the installation of the application. This is provisionally expected to be on Monday/Tuesday 27/28-Jan-2020.

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Screenshot of Solax UI showing some lovely solar rays powering @home ☀️

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@nelsonic The solar panel folks will be here this afternoon sometime after 15h00 to attempt to fix the issues.

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This info has now been sent and they are putting in the request for the registration of the solar power system with EDP (as is mandated by law).
I have warned them that the new potência contratada #70 won't be in force until early September but they have said they want to put the request in now as it actually takes quite a long time.

@nelsonic They have also said that we need to have the 'contador' hooked up by law, which requires a SIM card with data capabilities to be installed in the GSM modem that is already installed downstairs.
Carlos mentioned they could provide this for €5 pcm but that most people prefer to get it through their existing providers as they get them at €2 or €2.50 pcm.

This is the first I remember hearing of this so I have requested the spec for the equipment:
Contador Itron ACE6000.pdf
Modem GSM ITRON.pdf

I suspect that this equipment is purely for the sale of electricity to EDP. If so, we will be spending more money on the data card every month than we'd get back in sales at this stage.
So I've asked the question on whether it's necessary and if so, how much data is required.

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The above graphs are for Electricity usage. If we look at Total Primary Energy Supply (TPES), the story is even more skewed toward hydrocarbons!
https://www.iea.org/publications/freepublications/publication/Energy_Policies_of_IEA_Countries_Portugal_2016_Review.pdf

Portugal relative to other IEA member countries in 2014.

Also relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity
(energy storage capacity is not expanding at the rate of renewable supply ...)

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Consider adding ERoEI calculation to explain solar panels from a environmental perspective:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_returned_on_energy_invested

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Companies to request solar panel + installation quotes from:

• Damaia: https://www.damiasolar.com/produtos/kit_energia_solar/kit-de-autoconsumo-solar-4000w-de-injec-o-zero_da1002_112
• https://www.merkasol.com
• FF Solar: http://www.ffsolar.com/index.php?lang=PT&page=produtos&content=model&field=1&category=45&family=241
• Solar Full: https://www.olx.pt/anuncio/kit-5-000w-habitao-painel-solar-fotovoltaico-pico-10kw-prod-2750w-IDCdyaa.html

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Through research, we note that the SunPower® X-Series Residential Solar appear to be the best panels. see: https://us.sunpower.com/sites/sunpower/files/sunpower-x-series-residential-solar-panels-x21-335-blk-x21-345-datasheet-504828-revg.pdf

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4kw-SUNPOWER-X21-335W-Black-Solar-PV-System-THE-WORLDS-MOST-EFFICIENT-PANEL/132884779246

£5,995 for 12 panels (4kW) is definitely not "cheap"!
But if our objective is to maximise the amount of energy we can generate from the available space,
then we should only be considering panels that have this level of efficient conversion.

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In addition to roughly 30 PV solar panels, we have 5 Solar Water Heating Panels planned.
We need to make the difference clear to people ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_water_heating

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Sketchup Layout of Solar Panels:

Pink = windows
Green = heat pump solar panels

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@iteles we need to ask the suppliers of our solar panels what the price of the higher output panels are.

For reference, the SunPower X1 335W panels I linked to above (£5,995 for 12 panels) cost €620 each from Portuguese importer/installer "FF Solar" see: http://www.ffsolar.com/index.php?lang=PT&page=produtos&content=model&field=1&category=1&family=3

http://www.ffsolar.com/products/FF_lista_PVP.pdf

I think that sadly, the SunPower X1 are cost-prohibitive considering they have only 10% more output than a much more affordable 300W panel which costs around €160 ...

My original estimate in the April 2017 Biz Plan was €40k for panels and storage.
It's looking like with the recent price reductions that we might be able to get our complete solar system for €20k (with installation!) so that would be awesome! (the first underspend on the project!) 😮

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@iteles I exported the Roof Dimensions with Windows and Suggested Solar Panel positioning as PDF:
braga-telhado-janelas-e-paineis-solares.pdf

This should be easier for Carlos (Solar Panel Engineer) to view. 🔍
(Please reply to his email with this as an attachment, thanks!) 📎

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We met with solar panel providers at home this morning and discussed the positioning of the solar panels and required wiring.

The salient points from this meeting were:

• The panels can only be added to two of the sides of the roof
  • This is because all of the solar panels in one array must have a similar level of exposure to sunlight - i.e. the same angle and face the same way
• There must be a minimum of 10 solar panels (of the ones that have been proposed) wired in series, so we could not 'make use' of the space we would currently have left on the right hand side of the roof if we were to keep the heat pump solar panels there (green in the drawing above)
• The wiring will need to go down to where the inverter and batteries will be and also to the main electricity box
  • We have put in place a plan for this and it will have to be completed before the rest of the flooring goes down

Open questions

• Would it be more advantageous to use the prime sun location (right hand side of the roof drawing above) for additional photovoltaic panels instead of the heat pump panels?
  • For this, we need to know the Seasonal Coefficient of Performance (SCOP) of the heat pumps (I have emailed to request this and they came back with the COP of the solar panels, so I have replied to explain this is not what we need)
• Budget for higher capacity solar panels (330kW or 360kw) with the same surface area

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The cost of Photovoltaic solar has decreased by 18% in the last year ... 😮
https://about.bnef.com/blog/battery-powers-latest-plunge-costs-threatens-coal-gas/

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The latest proposals/costs for the solar panels include something interesting: solar panels on three portions of the roof. I have emailed them to query this.

All quotes are not for 315W panels.

They also include batteries for now - see note in #25 (comment) around costs for the decision to be made.

If only 2 sides on the roof:

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@nelsonic These guys seem extremely knowledgeable and they're up the road if anything goes wrong. Do you think we should get a quote from the Póvoa de Lanhoso guys too or are you happy with these?

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@nelsonic DAPE have now confirmed it will take 3 weeks to source all the materials needed so we should confirm with them this coming week (3-Jun-2019).

The solar panels on 3 portions of the roof is confirmed (they confirmed this was possible: "colocação de 8 módulos a melhor situação será dividir estes módulos pelos módulos das outras duas águas de modo a termos 2 strings com tensão equivalente").

The only decision left is whether or not to go for batteries. All costs and differences are here:
#25 (comment)

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We are still waiting for the batteries and inverter to be installed before we can use the panels ... ⏳
But the 32 panels have already been installed on the roof:

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I'm here waiting for the Solar Panel people to arrive. ⏳
Hot spot indeed. Who is providing it? ❓
(as much as I want to donate my data to use the solar panels,
I'm 100% certain the software will require an update as soon as it connects to the net...) 🙄

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Indeed the solar output measurement software has a bug in it. Not very reassuring ... 🙄

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@iteles thanks for following up. 👍 📆

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We have now agree to the new contract from EDP, so I am pulling together the information required by DAPE for them to finalize their configuration:

• CPE number
• NIF
• Potência contratada

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2 years later and Google Earth still thinks we have the old roof ... 🤷‍♂️

Need to dig out a drone photo. 📷

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